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So, to complement Rex's (very interesting) Greatest Weakness thread, I wanted to start a discussion of the greatest strength of the HE.
Some possible candidates:
-Shooting (not it, IMO, cause DE do better with the same RBT).
In my opinion, it is the synergies possible with the HE: Choosing spells to complement particular strategies, high movement cavalry with marchblockers and RBTs to allow flank shots and set up flanking maneuvers, etc. It seems the list works very well with itself to create a variety of nifty set-ups.
So what do other people like best about their HE armies?
For me easy. Eagles. Without a doubt the most usefull unit in the army.
Second would be magic but seperated in casting or items but the combination of everything. Lets face it. Dark Elves are better at casting with +1. Other armies have better items or spells. But the combination or available spells (and the ability to pick our spells) and magic items. Also one of the scariest bound spells in the warhammer world (ring of corin).
Unfortunately I also think magic in one of our biggest weaknesses as it's so no brainer good that people tend to load up on rather then build a ballanced list that is much more fun to play.
My favourite unit are the spearmen. They aren't killing machines true but they have a decent WS and I, and average S and T. So the ability to fight in three ranks is something i find really useful.
They're also core and i really like solid core troops (just the way i like to build my armies)
Why is magic the best? Because of the fluff? Our mages do exactly the same roll as a goblin mage, except they cost about twice the points. Both generate just as many PD/DD, both can use and cast just as many spells (for the individual, I know we have access to more lores) and both die just as easily. I really don't think magic is a big strength for HE, especially since magic doesn't really play a game winning role in most games anyway.
Magic defence, maybe. We get the +1 to dispel rolls, and some pretty cool items. Speaking of which, magic items is definitely an advantage.
I'd have to say our cavalry is the best part of the army though. My silver helms never let me down, even when the rest of the army is fleeing or dead they're still dashing forward and valiantly routing opponent's units to scrape back a draw or minor defeat.
I think High Elves biggest strength is what a lot of people consider to be its biggest weakness. That is that all of the units need to used in unison with each other to win. That is what makes them so much fun to play.
I love the Eagles also. They are the best unit because you get so much for 50 points each.
I completely disagree. Look at the goblin miscast table. Look at the items a HE mage can take or best of all. Look at the amount of different lores a HE mage can pick from and if you take the seer ability you can pick your spells with that lore too. Then leadership 8 protects them from panicing from a fleeing unit. And so does the pure of heart. Goblin bolt throwers are also much cheaper but which do you think works better. This is the biggest problem with High Elf players always complaining about how there stuff in no better then others but is so much more expensive. (I've done it too when I first started HE) You need to look at the big picture though. BTW if you think they HE mages are too expensive then don't bring them, I would love to see less magic heavy HE armies.Originally Posted by strewart
Just for fun I made a HE list once, even though I don't have them or plan to. I used an archmage, mainly for magic defense and no other characters. Then I built up what I felt was a really balanced force. When I was done, I was pretty impressed with the list. It didn't rely on magic with characters, but I did plump up with the occasional banner or item on the unit champion that can take one. It was very stout with magic defense, had a lot of models on the table (especially for elves, but a lot for most armies), and could attack in a lot of different ways.Originally Posted by strewart
I think high elves can be very viable without a lot of magic (and I'm reading it here as offensive, since I obviously took defense with my list).
Strewart has a point about the high cost of our mages. No other race's mages cost what ours do and we're supposed to be 'innately magical'.
In fact, the rulebook states that we get a reduction of the cost of basic magic items because we're the "most magical of warriors".
Natural magical talent should cost less points, not more. Orc high shamen cost nearly 1/3 less than an archmage of similar power. Are orcs naturally magical? I'd expect the point costs to be exactly opposite.
I appreciate Sylvesters' comments as well though. I have read many of his posts and learned a great deal from him. Our mages do have great gear available to them, but that shouldn't make the mage itself expensive.
Though I understand his perspective, Sylvester's arguements against magic-heavy elf armies, have not yet swayed me. His point about the game turning into a piles of dice deciding the battle vs elegant manoever is true, but there is no getting around the fact that elves are fragile creatures on the battlefield.
A typical elf soldier has the same strength and toughness as a goblin. Generals can field 4 or 5 spearsgoblins per elf spearself. Elves must rely on magic and equipment to offset both numbers and strength advantage nearly all enemies will have. Only our Silverhelms have the gear to go toe-to-toe with most foes, and repeater bolt-throwing, mage-backed armies built around them seem most likely to succeed in a world of S4 T4 enemies.
Perhaps when I've played even 1/10th the battles Sylvester has, I'll come around to his point of view. It is probably dull for a veteran player in search of a challenging game to watch his opponent rely on a dice pile rather than manoever skill. I'm new enough that I'm not ready to handicap my army by limiting options for an asthetics.
we can complain/discuss about our mages here (again) but we all should know that GW never suits fluff to rules.
fluffwize all our mages should be "mini-slans" but the fact is that our mages are expensive for what they do. we all know it.
they are rather good, but we sure as hell feel it pointwise.hightide has a point.Originally Posted by Hightide
we can also start to complain again that:
"o we have same strength and toughness as a goblin, but pay 4x the price"
yes we know this by know and we can't do anything about it. Period
what we can do here is using our speed and skill to hammer the enemy's battle line where we want to and attack the enemy and defeat him there with our specialised troops.
this results in a amry and battle plan in which you need to think hard and make tough desicions, making battles exiting and fun. And you feel good when you just slaugtherd a horde army that way.
and yes our eagles are absolutely fantastic:yes: , i won't deny that.
"Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers; all of which are true and terrifying to know"
So you got here before me .. :ninja: Just kidding .. :w00t:Originally Posted by kooshlordSince I'm not playing HE myself I guess I'll have to mention what "disturbs" me the most when facing them instead.Originally Posted by kooshlord
First up is probably the magic-list. You really have some powerful spells out there to ruin the enemy. The first that springs to mind is Fury of Khaine (is that right?), which really packs a punch. Next is that thing who removes a magic item. Seriously .. that's one of the best spells in the game.
Apart from magic, eagles and spearmen (elves) are really frustrating. You really have to put effort into breaking a unit of spear-wielding-elves. The rest of the army is pretty straightforward .. good infantry but low armour. Nothing special about the shooting or chariots really.