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Thread: Book of Hoeth

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    Member TheCommodore's Avatar
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    Book of Hoeth

    Okay, so I have a High Elf friend who likes the Book of Hoeth, but we are arguing over the how it works.

    He says that you get irresistable force if you successfully cast the spell OR you get doubles (not ones).

    I say that you get irresistable force if you successfully cast the spell AND you get doubles (not ones).

    I'm 95% certain that I am right, but wanted to make sure. Who's right?

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    Junior Member Swordmaster5's Avatar
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    Tell your friend he is wrong, he needs to successfully cast and roll doubles for it to be irresistable force.

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    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    Also note that, if you can play High Elves too, casting Fortune is Fickle on the Archmage bearing the Book COMPLETELY negates the effects of the Book.

    (The Book only IRs spells that aren't Miscasts - Fortune is Fickle turns all spells that the Book would IR into Miscasts, hence negating the whole thing. And, as another plus, FiF is a pain to get rid of after it's in effect (The latter is due to the spell affecting dispelling in the same way as it affects casting - note that the dispelling says "player", not "Wizard"))
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    You have to successfully cast the spell and get doubles for it to count as irresistable force, however the book does not protect against miscasts. If you roll double 1's the miscast over rules the IF.

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    In the Book it states....

    Book of Hoeth 100points
    This well-worn tome has been studied by mages throughout the
    ages and has helped some of the greatest understand the inner
    working of the realm of magic.


    Any spell cast bu the mage with this book will be cast with
    Irresistible Force, on any successful casting roll which includes any
    double except a Miscast.


    ....Now to me i read that as long as you cast, so say you roll 3D6 and get 6, 4 and a 3 (totalling 13) to cast Flames of the Phoenix (for example, which cast on 11+) and you have the Book of Hoeth at you're disposal then it is cast with Irresistible Force.....the most important thing is that you have to successfully cast the spell first, doubles or no, and then it doesn't matter(it doesn't have to be cast and with doubles in the casting role), it will be with Irresistible Force, unless you roll snake-eyes.......

    Thats how i read it, it really didn't seem complicated to me, might be my degree in English Lit that does that tho?!?>!?!?!

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    Member Hightide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_phil
    Any spell cast bu the mage with this book will be cast with
    Irresistible Force, on any successful casting roll which includes any
    double except a Miscast.


    ....Now to me i read that as long as you cast, so say you roll 3D6 and get 6, 4 and a 3 (totalling 13) to cast Flames of the Phoenix (for example, which cast on 11+) and you have the Book of Hoeth at you're disposal then it is cast with Irresistible Force.....the most important thing is that you have to successfully cast the spell first, doubles or no, and then it doesn't matter(it doesn't have to be cast and with doubles in the casting role), it will be with Irresistible Force, unless you roll snake-eyes.......

    Thats how i read it, it really didn't seem complicated to me, might be my degree in English Lit that does that tho?!?>!?!?!
    I disagree. The rule says on any successful casting roll which includes any double except a miscast.

    The 3D6 roll of 6,4 and 3 would be successful but it can still be dispelled, but a roll of 6, 3 and 3 or any roll with a total of 11 or more that includes a double would be IR.

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    fair enough, but if that was the case why make the Book of Hoeth 100points, if all you get from it is 5 more chances to get irresistible force? if i have been reading it wrong all this time, my friend's agreed with me on how it should be played and they're the ones who have suffered..... in which case i will never use it again as i think thats way too many points to chance a guaranteed IR The dice gods just don't work that way......

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    It will be cast on IF on and successful roll which includes any double. You have to get a double and you have to successfully cast it for it to go off. If any spell you successfully cast were IF that would be ridiculous. Its still worth its points especially agianst dwarves where the ability to cast a lot of spells with IF allows you to get a good number of spells through.

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    i'm not liking the odds on getting any doubles just to get IF, i see where you're coming from and looking at it from a different angle yes casting IF on any casting roll is a tad excessive but thats the way i read it.....fair enough the odds on rolling a double are better if you're not just aiming for double sixes, but looking at it again i don't think i'll ever use it as there are better combos to be had which would probably do more damage. The ever fantastic GW and their vague wording on rules, either that or my literary degree has really been messing with my head.

    ..edit...

    Having looked around there are also some valid points on this topic

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ook-hoeth.html (Book of Hoeth)

    the book of hoeth is obviously one of those your damned if you do, damned if you don't items, if you take it you need a feeder or caddy mage to support the archmage with BoH, but the increased odds of getting several high impact spells on IF is quite attractive..however if your enemy goes straight for your archmage the rest of you men will on the next boat back to Ulthuan........
    Last edited by big_phil; August 22nd, 2006 at 02:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_phil
    fair enough, but if that was the case why make the Book of Hoeth 100points, if all you get from it is 5 more chances to get irresistible force? if i have been reading it wrong all this time, my friend's agreed with me on how it should be played and they're the ones who have suffered..... in which case i will never use it again as i think thats way too many points to chance a guaranteed IR The dice gods just don't work that way......
    Are you kidding me???? This thing is sooo worth it's points that I have never used it. I think it's one of the cheesiest items out there. Think of it this way. Many HE players build magic heavy armies. But then they run into a high magic defense army like Khorne or Dwarves and they go home crying because those 600+ points they invested in magic didn't do anything. This item ensures you will get a decent amount of spells of. Look at it this way. If you throw 3 dice at a spell and you get it of (rolling high enough) then you have a 1 in 3 chance to get irrisistible force. Without the book of Hoeth the odds are more like 1 in 15-20. With 2 dice you still almost have a 1 in 6 chance to get a IF. With 4 dice you have almost a 50% chance to get IF. I am just thankfull that this item will get nerfed in 7th edition.

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