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Hey everyone, Now I realize that this particular tpoic has been addressed several times I must bring it up again for the sake of maybe(Y) getting a pretty big rule change in the new edition if GW finally decides to listen to its HE players.
Phoenix Guard! (Bum Bum Bum)
-THese sneaky little gits have been the topic of many a discussion especially since the 6th edition came out and they got a little better than they were, however, THEY STILL AREN'T WORTH THE HAIR IN MY NOSE.
-Why is it that these supposed elite warriors who can never speak, and have seen their own -doom and the doom of many a Phoenix King via the Chamber of Days, how are they a rarre choice worth 15 points cause fear and again a rare choice?
-Now I realize that this may seem too forward of a thing to say but it is my opinion that these noble warriors should be given a major dose of steroids. Another thing that I realize is that these guys are better than the average elf warrior, what with the initiative and the WS and LD and strength with a halbred. But since they are a rare choice combined with these things and with the other rare choices available, whats the point in taking them.
-They cause fear yes which is good for them, but there isn't much else that they do. Swordmasters and White-lions far outshine the Warrior priests due to their spercial rules and their strngth increase, but the Phoenix guard are a rare choice, another elite infantry unit that can so easily be replaced with repeater bolt throwers and Eagles.
-So what I think should happen is a completee reworking of their points cost, special rules/rules in general, and their fluff which will in turn keep true to the fluff already available.
-For these reforms to their rules in addition to their existing stats and special rules they should be increased in points cost to 19ppm in my opinion at least, but please feel free to comment on these reforms.
-One thing I would suggest is their special rules section, I think that maybe instead of the Fear rule, the opponents should be unnerved and have a reduced leadership when it comes to their CR and when it comes to charging. In other words I think that when being charged by the PG a unit should roll their leadership and if they fail it they can only hit the phoenix Guard on rolls of sixes much like being charged in the flank in 6th ed.
-Some of my ideas have come from other threads that I have read in the past, however most of these have been tweaked a little in order to make them more fair.
-Destiny-another rule that I think should be added is the addition of a ward save due to their ability to see the exact moment when they die, I think a modest 6+ ward save would do the trick, a max of 5+ would do it though it may be pushing it a little.
-Magical oath-MR of 2-
-Also these warriors should gain help from assuran in the form of an additional -1 for armor saves added to the strength modifier. This is on the basis that since each warrior knows the time of their death it means that they will try to cause as much damage to the enemy before they die.
-Now before you all start to say something about them being almost too good this way I must say that with these benefits there should be some drawbacks. HOwever as of yet I have been unable to find any fair combinations.
-Now I realize that this may seem stupid that we are talking about these things as though they could change in the near future or as simply wishful thinking, and that GW will probably ignore these possibilities altogether, however there may be the slightest chance that someone will notice and take these into consideration. PLEASE!
Again all posts are welcome, so speak your mind and vent your frustrations about this infantry units unfairness, and ask yourselves, why should we waste time and money on basically a useless unit?
p.s if this seems rude it is in no way meant to be so. It is a very frustrating subvject for myself and several other players whom i know.
pps why is it that the High elves lost all those 5th Edition rules that kicked butt and made our army AWESOME. Just food for thought.
its true PG are very annoying...i used to collect high elves and when planning an army i would flick through and say to the PG "what are you even doing here"
Only the weak tell tales of how strong they are...
I suggested this in the last thread but IMHO the best ability they could add to PG without out and out giving them a powerful offensive edge is some death blow. In other words, when a model is removed it gets a single attack. Its a powerful ability that makes them extremely offensive but since they are so expensive its a nice balancing act between the potent ability and the loss of such a costly model. I did likewise suggest that white lions have a similar ability but theres had more to do with getting their attack even if they die before they get to deal it. Perhaps one of these two suggestions is good and probably having both abilities would be overkill but then again it might just be one of those nice themes they have no one else does.
They are what they are. End of discussion. Yes they suck and GW is probably very aware of this since they are never seen on any table.
If you think they suck (which I do) then don't take them. Every army has something that is almost worthless. Take the chaos hell cannon. Want something to complain about? That is some piece of worthless crap.
If it doesn't do what you want it to do for the points then leave them and take something else. Whining is not going to make them better and the HE are still a long way away from being redone so get used to them.
Well put(Y)Originally Posted by Sylvester
My own opinion of PG is that they aren't totally useless - far from it, in fact. I think points can be better spent elsewhere though.
Well wasnt the whole point of the thread to try and come up with creative suggestions to improve the army? Possible solutions? What is a forum for if not to discuss opinions and ideas. Frankly HE have a right to complain. They did lose a lot from 5th to 6th as far as competitiveness. Nobody wants to have a predetermined army every game because half their choices are by default suck. Its not whinning as long as your constructive. That being said I don't play high elves, I play against them. And frankly I'm tired of fighting fat blocks of spearmen and 4 mages (or substitute spearmen for cavalry). I'd like to see my opponent feel like he can make something else and not just be handicapping himself before the match.
people have been whining about PG ever since this version of the armybook has existed and GW will not change it because we whine.
drop the subject know, we all love the mini's and it is a waste not to use them. we all know it tenfold by know
BUT IT IS AS IT IS, END OF STORY
hope it helps
"Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers; all of which are true and terrifying to know"
High elves have limited and expensive troops to their disposal but are in no way handicapt. Name one other army that has movement 9 elite heavy cav? Or that fight in 3 ranks with WS4. And lets not even talk about the power of eagles. With a lion guard we can make any unit stubborn. And some of the best magic items combo's in the game. I stopped playing them because I feel like I needed a change and I felt I had finally become competitive with them. Which was a long and agonizing process. But I can bow get a 50%+ win ratio with them with only 2 mages(no dragon either, that thing is also broken as heck and ruins the game, at 2K level at least). i could probably do it without magic at all but don't see a need to. Magic is part of HE and is ok to be used. But to max it out is stupid and does not guarantee victory. All it does is make the game into a craps game. You roll well for your spells and you win, you roll poorly and you lose.
As for the PG. I think they are the coolest models too. So I often use them as first among equal spearmen. That way I can still field them.
Why don't they are unbreakable?
they know when their time has come.
Their is nothing wrong with an unbreakable HE unit, we dont have them yet. only stubborn.
Hey guys lets not get defensive and snappy here, all i'm saying is that if there was a way to change them what would you suggest and what would be the most balanced and yet more worth the trouble put into buying, and painting the models?
And I realize3 that you guys say don't play them, but I must have my two cents worth put in.
The way the fluff is (official and unnoficial) these elite troops come in with their halbreds and escort the body of the old Phoenix King and the future Phoenix king to the Sacred flame where he will be buried etc. However the way I look at it, such a rare and quite frankly disturbing unit of creatures shold cause a little more than fear.
Think about it this way what would happen if suddenly on the news you heard about civil war soldiers showing up in the desert of mongolia or something like that, I mean it would be pretty rare (OK bad example but im coming up with this on the fly). However something like that if seen by the enemy would be pretty frikin unnerving and may even have the enemy fleeing before the battle begins.
Do you see my point?
OK I got one what if a dragon suddenly appeared out of no where and started rampaging along the countryside of England, what do you thin would happen when the army showed up and a giant winged beast weighing probably as much as a tank with the firepower to match came hurtling out of the sky you would get your butt off the field and hide in a cave (Again bad example but work with me here!).
I mean cummon these guys come out what every couple of hundred years maybe even close to a millenia. Stories would spread like wildfire of an unseen foe, and when on the battle field the enemy even from the opposite side of the field would be feeling wary and may not even show up.
Not to mention the fact that these guys fight like crazy, I mean cummon!
Ideas are more welcome than criticism,
What would you want to see them (WITHIN REASON AND BALANCED) that they cannot do now, something characterful that goes along with their fluff.
Again all comments are welcome but try to keep them in the spirit of the thread nothing that is degenerating or anything like "Don't take em" I got enough of those stupid replies, no offense meant by this either to those who did respond this way.
SPIRIT OF THE EXCERCISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!