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I have just come from disasterous defeat by one of my friend's Lizardmen armies. It seems (at least at first glance) that the Lizardmen have it all. They have toughness 4, 2 attack Saurus; fast skirmishing scouting skinks, rock hard Saurus Cavalry and Kroxigor, and excellent hero and lord choices; such as Oldbloods, Slann and Skink Priests (who get to use the excellent lore of the Heavens). And to top it all off, they get to roll 3 dice for leadership and break tests!
Where is there a flaw in this list? I've tried almost everything to defeat these guys, yet I have as of yet been unable to do so. Any ideas on what to take against lizardmen and what tactics to use? All comments welcome!
[Edit: I realized that I could be much clearer about strategies if I rewrote the mess I started with.]
The main problem High Elves face against Lizardmen is their low strength vs. the Lizardmen's better-than-average toughness. Three things you should do are: Make SURE that you charge them, not the other way around; use fast cav and chariots to hit them in the flanks; and warmachines, warmachines, warmachines.
1. Charge them first.
I know this isn't a revolutionary idea, but it's more important against the Lizardmen. Lizardmen have the worst Initiative in the game. Even their Lords & Heroes have below average Initiative. The reason charging them is more important in this matchup is that if you charge first, you're guaranteed to go first in each round. Take Silver Helms & Swordmasters for their higher Strength (at least on the charge) to take the biggest advantage of this.
2. Use Fast Cavalry & Chariots for flanks.
Maybe I just suck at movement, but fast cav screws me over every time, in every army permutation I've tried. Whether it's charges in the flanks or a squad that runs around me, shooting me constantly, I hate fast cavalry. Chariots are also good for both this strategy & for #1 above.
3. Warmachines are your friends.
They hurt. A lot. And Lizardmen don't have anything that can cut the distance quickly except for Terradons, a unit that's awful unless there's 7-10 of them in the unit. The RBT is able to cut through the Lizardmen's scaly skin, and you can hit anything you can see. Plant them on a hill, & you're in good shape. If your opponent takes a Slann, you can use this to take it out wherever it is.
Hope that helps,
Bad Hat Harry
Last edited by Bad Hat Harry; February 3rd, 2007 at 19:38.
They do have a weakness. Speed and lack of firepower.
2 RTB's and 2 eagles do wonders. Eagles march block behind their lines and the rtb's take stuff out. Then slam into their lines with multiple chariots. This will minimize their attacks back and allow you to break them despite your cold bloodedness. Also skin pries (main form of lizzie magic) are soft and easy to kill. Hunt for them with eagles then dominate the magic phase.
Skinks eat your Eagles alive with their blowpipes and can easily block the flanks of an important saurus unit
We have no firepower exept for mages that has more range then 15" but we make that up with the ammount we can shoot in close range.
Take a unit of 3 salamanders and see wat happens with most of your High Elf units.
Also watch lone Saurus Scar-Veterans and Kroxigors because those smash your chariots to pieces before you can say "Charge".
Personaly i think its hard to play agains an good Lizardmen player because they are one of the most balanced army´s in fantasy.
"I could calculate your chance of survival, but you won't like it."
"Shut up! Sit your ass down in that chair and DRINK YOUR GODDAMN TEA!" - Cid FFVII
The kroxi's only go 12" charge. Why would they get the charge. Also eagles are great for redirection. then 1 chariot in the flank usually does enough to kill the one on the end and with no attacks back they usually run.
As for the JSOD. The minute you take him out of the unit the chariot will flee and another chariot will charge him or the RTB's/magic will kill him off.
Sally's misfire way too much but are still the main concern. Still their low LD 5 often mean one panic check and they are gone. Even with cold blooded rule.
As for the skins. Most magic missiles will send them packing.
Yes, the lizardmen is an army with many strengths but also keep in mind that they have one big weakness not yet mentioned. Almost all lizzy armies look the same. 2 units of saurus, a unit of cold one's, 2 or 3 sally's, 3 or 4 kroxi's, 2 or 3 units of skirmishing skinks, 3 terradons, a steggy, a JSOD and 2 priests.
Pretty much before setup I know what I'm up against and what my opponents setup is going to be. Personally I wouldn't even take RTB's against lizzies, just 4 eagles. With that the combat will go on my terms. But then again I am a aggressive high elf player. Not a defensive one. I hate the defensive play. High Elves are much better in the attack which also often catches people off guard.
Every now and then there is a slaan but they reduce the size of the army quite a bit.
Every time I play against the Lizards, I gun for skinks. It's really quite simple. Skinks are still fairly costly units, because they are fielded in mass numbers. Their weapons, with standing and shooting, can really mess with your cavalry, but that cavarly unit will normally send them screaming and running. Never let skinks get ANYWHERE NEAR a static defensive line. Skinks know what they're good at, and will just park it about a foot away and turn you into walking pin-cushions.
As for dealing with the Saurus? Flank charges, cav and chariots are all that I can say. Hopefully you manage to panic enough skinks that ONE of those LD checks fails and they run a little. The average Lizard player really doesn't field too many Saurus. It's odd, but they normally fall for the Skink-Screen Bullsht GW tactic.
Lizards that know they are going to fight elves generally don't waste time with uber-cc characters like OldBloods. They gun to shoot out your magic phase instead. They like dispell dice, and can loads of them. They are THE most lethal casters in the game, behind arguably Chaos sorcerers.
The best tactic is to hold off on your edge of the table until turn 4, then hit the skinks with everything and try to break through them. You'll probably manage to get your Cavalry back behind the bulk of the army. Kill skink priests as fast as possible, and remember to take lots of magic for yourself. That way you rule the casting phases. Once you get rid of the skinks, you can swing around and hit the saurus if you want, or just go after smaller juicy targets behind the screens. Tiny units, Independent characters, surviving skinks. The benefit to this tactic is that you will have cut out a large chunk of the enemy's points, and they've only got 2 turns to spin around and go after your pricey units.
Excuse my ignorance (and off-topicness), but what's a JSOD?
to begin with, i must stay this, JSoD and Slann should be spelt like i just did.
Anacron, JSoD is short for Jaguar Suarus of Doom (other aliases include a 'nike saurus' or 'jaguar saurus). a JSoD has the enchanted item 'the charm of the jaguar warrior' which gives him movement 9. he normally also has the blessing of sotek and a great weapon giving him 5 str 7 atk at ws 5 on the charge. he is primarily used as a chariot killer, skirmish unit hunter, and gunline ravager.
And on the tactical note I must say Sylvester is write, over half the LM players you meet will use the same army list (I however use a blessed host of Huanchi and utilise MSU and Lone Slann tactics, this generally is very unexpected).
The biggest problem you elf players will have is underestimation. A JSoD will kill a chariot if you try to move within charge range, personally i think you should ditch the chariot idea, instead get lots of knight unit. A LM play has almost nothing that can take them down except magic (which is unrealiable). A good LM player will block your march moves with Terries and or Skinks. If the opponent has a Slann you WILL lose in the magic phase but if you kill it you WILL win the game.
However, if the LM player is a noob (biggest sign of an LM noob: Presence of Skink chiefs, Slann of 5th or 3rd Generation, Jungle swarms [unless using Lone Slann tactics], Stegadons, chameleon skinks, and Oldbloods, especially on Carnosaurs) your laughing. Feel free to get chariots and all the othe stuff to you hearts content.
if u use a Lone Slann tactics what happens if u meet any canons or warp ligtning canon.. it will take 3 turns for a warp ligthings canon to take your slann out.. and if u meet anything that cause fear or terror your slann is lost too.?
Lone slann's are toast against VC. Raise a unit next to slann. Dance them in only insane courage will save that slann.