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Hello all...I am currently trying to assemble a well balanced High Elves Army...I've been away from the fantasy game for some years now while concentrating on my 40k eldar army but while rummaging through some boxes I came across a number of high elf models that I had bought years ago already assembled and primed for painting(my interest in high elves is what eventually led me to eldar)...needless to say this discovery got me quite excited and intrigued for some High Elf Action on the battlefield...The units i unearthed are by no means afull army and the purpose of this thread is to get some insight and advice from far more advanced High Elf generals then myself in how I could best make up the rest of my army....I plan on playing 1500 to 2000 point battles at my local game store so please give me any and all advice or ideas that come to mind about how to best make this army effective...don't be afraid to get lengthy all help is greatly appreciated...here's what I have so far...:
16 High Elf Spearmen - w/ musician, standard, and champ
26 High Elf Archers - w/ 1 musician, 1 standard, and 1 champ
16 Swordmasters of Hoeth - w/ musician, standard, and champ
1 Tiranoc Chariot
As you can see its a barebones collection now but I feel happy that I unearthed what seems like a nice starting block of an army...fire away with ideas...thanks again guys for the help.
Some basic High Elf tips that I go by:
1. Do not waste too many points on archers. They are too expensive and too ineffective (range is good but only S3 with no armour piercing even at half range is pretty bad)
2. Take some cavalry, Silver Helms are excellent for two reasons: They are Core choices and you can armour them up to give them a 2+ save.
3. 7th edition rules means you have to have Ranks that are 5 models wide. So 16 spearmen in 6th edition in a block of 4x4 was ok, now its not as you gain no rank bonus. So go for 20.
4. Use the chariot with a unit of cavalry to hit the same enemy unit. High Elves are often all about doing as much damage in the first turn in an attempt to get the enemy to flee so you can run him down.
5. Dragon Princes have nice barding that does not slow them down. Silver Helms move at 9 but lose 1 for barding, so 8 or 16 if marching/charging. Dragon Princes move 9 so march/charge 18. Compare that to a normal horse with 8 (possibly with -1 barding on top) movement and you should always be able to get the first charge in.
6. Get one or two bolt throwers. Nice to have the range and no-armour-save power when doing a single shot.
7. Ignore Phoenix Guard and Lothern Seaguard units. Also too expensive for what they are.
8. Finally remember that your army is extremely flexible: Go for all Mages/Archmages to dominate the Magic Phase. Go for no Mages at all to annoy your opponent who has taken dispel scrolls, or runesmiths etc as they will be a waste. Go for Prince on Dragon for a Terror-causing high-damage model, but beware as it WILL attract cannon fire, spells, missile fire etc etc.
Oh and take some cavalry
thank you for your helpful words of wisdom my friend...i will most certainly look into getting some silver helms and dragon princes a long with a bolt thrower to round the army out...to start I'm thinking of just taking a high elf mounted general to go with the helms or dragon princes, but will eventually look into the terror causing dragon lord, as it seems fun to paint also.
One thing I'd like to say is that while I extend my gratitude toward the one person who responded with helpful information, what I have to ask more than anything is why there is such a lack of responses within the high elf community towards this post. 30 views and only one person even throws in a comment or recommendation, I mean come on guys I could use some help, don't just look and not say anything, throw one comment good or bad in just to help a brother out...IDK but it seems like on the 40k boards and what not that any tactical or composition of army questionthat is asked gets 15-20 good responses within the first day or two...so please help me out!!!
Hi, good luck with the elves. I love them and don't let people tell them they are underpowered. I do have to disagree with the previous respondent on some issues. Mainly the flexibility of the army. Yes you can go all magic and dominate the magic phase. Or go all cav. But in my experience you are best off with ballanced forces. Usually 4 levels of magic with one or 2 bound items is plenty to make a decent magic phase but it won't hurt to bad when you miscast or run into a opponent with lots of dispel power (dwarves, khorne).
Keep in mind that if you load up on one part of the game you will not have enough to take care of other parts of the game. And you will eventually run into an opponent with the answer to your one part. Make ballanced forces and you will have a lot more fun. Also in my experience a ballanced force will usually beat a one trick pony list. With high elves this usually translates into 2 or 3 units of infantry (swordmasters are the best unit maybe even in the whole game). Then a few units of cav, maybe a chariot or 2 (if you take a chariot take at least 2) and some shooting. Not too many archers as they kinda suck. But don't forget the most valuable unit in the list. Get some great eagles. 2 is the minimum. I would even consider taking 4 and no boltthrowers. But that's a personal prefference.
Finally, don't get the dragon. In general dragons don't belong in games under 3000 points. The whole game becomes about the dragon. If the dragon lives you win if it dies you lose. It makes for very boring games. Especially the high elf dragon since it is probably the most powerfull dragon of all "normal" dragons.
When you hone in on it, I disagree with the practice of taking Dragon Princes. DPs get an extra inch, or two on the charge, and are immune to fire. Nobody uses fire. 9-18' moves?! You are outrunning most people's fast cavalry at this point. It really has very little effect on the battlefield, and those choices are better used on RBTs and so forth.
Things never to take:
archers- they are horrendous. your RBTs are so much more effective, although any more than two RBTs is 'cheesey'
seagaurd- way too expensive for a useless unit. you either stand and shoot, or use spears. the spears are the better option, and the bows are worthless if you are deployed for CC. If you deploy for shooting, you get charged, lose, and die. they are too expensive for a worthless tactic.
pheonix gaurd- empire can get these same guys for 6pts. They aren't a bad unit, and they are a great stat line, but they're too expensive. Like most elves. I know we're supposed to be a dying race, but we shouldn't be that heavily outnumbered.
white lions- the greatweapons of the Swordmasters are the better choice. The lions can move through trees, whoopty-doo. The only reason you might want Lions is that they can become stubborn.
things we like. alot:
Silver Helms- by far the elves greatest strength is their cavalry. It is fast and dangerous on the charge. Get units of ten, as you'll need the ranks. a combined charge of Silver Helms and a chariot will shatter any unit in the game.
Ellyrion Reavers: these guys are very fast, very dangerous. they are good for flanking and confusing an enemy. remember, unlike 40k your foe will have to manuever to follow them, and you'll get better charges.
Great Eagles: kinda expensive, but they are great for taking down mages and warmachines. Only flyers we have. A good tactic is placing a Prince on one and giving him the Bow of the Seafarer.
Tirranoc Chariots: these things are faster than some cavalry, and will do enough damage on impact to shake a unit's hold on sanity. Mix this with a good SH charge or even a ER flank, and they will break and run for the hills. Obviously, don't ever get charged, and keep characters out of them.
Shadow Warriors: as much as I hate infantry, I will make use of these guys when I MUST get some shooting in. They are able to scout, and can be a thorn in the side for an enemy. Put them in trees and watch them hold out for a while, bugging the heck out of the enemy. When the foe goes to charge them, either flee and leave them swamped in the trees, or flank them.
RBTs: short for Repeater Bolt Thrower, these things rock. The single shot is useless, but they are THE BEST shooting we can get. Trust us on this, you want at least 1 of these honies.
Spearmen: I hate 'em, but they really aren't bad. Fighting in three ranks makes them into some stern opposition to most enemies. You just HAVE to have Cavalry because these guys can't win without getting in a good flank charge with some SH.
all in all, cavalry is the way to go if you want a beast of a list that's gonna win alot. THe more infantry you add in, the more friendly the list becomes. A 2/3 cav list is still pretty good, and you'll win quite a few battles with a challenging side. More than that, and you are looking at lucky draws. Just my opinion for new kids. After you get used to it, you can add in more infantry.
10 Silver Helms costs 265pts inc Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician, Hvy Armour and Shields.
10 Dragon Princes (DP) costs 305 pts for the same.
So why would you choose them??
Dragon Princes are Special choices, so you can still have your Repeater Bolt Throwers (RBT) in your Rare slot(s) and you can take 2 Chariots for 1 Special slot remember, so still lots of flexibility etc there.
- DP have +1WS, +1In and +1Ld (very nice, 9Ld instead of
- DP can give the Champion 25pts of magic items: I sometimes give him the Blessed Tome so all High Elf units within 6" get +1Ld. So the DP are now Ld 10, great against Fear causing armies for example, more likely to charge, not run away etc.
- DP can have a 50pt Magic Banner, Silver Helms only 25pts. I have used these banners with the DP before:
- Banner of Sorcery giving +D3 Power Dice
- Banner of Arcane Protection giving Magic Resistence (2) and Undead/Daemons in Base-to-Base contact with the DP unit lose 1 wound every bearers Magic Phase. So you can wipe out the enemy front rank in your own Magic Phase (does not count towards Combat Resolution) and then do the Close Combat.
True cadaith, you've got me. I just opened my army book and found that yes, RBTs are rare.
However, I typically play my games at smaller sizes and dislike expensive units. Yes, a unit of DPs will be able to a up-gun itself in the extreme, and become incredibly expensive in the end. You essentially have a unit of SHs with a general and standard bearer nearby. In a large game, yes, I'd take some DPs. They are good when you are operating far from your own general, but in a small game it's my personal opinion to keep the general with the bulk of the troops- in most cases my cavalry.
It is not that I'm against DPs, I have a unit of them, it's just that when you are getting started and playing small games, it's best not to use those DPs unless you are going all cav.