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Hi, im starting a new army, chaos space marines(most likely nurgle-based or iron warriors). I want these to look very good, even though my painting skills arent the greatest, and i think paint is fairly important for getting a good look and good color to your models.
I'd like to know what other people think of using non-games workshop or vajello paints. The main reason for this would be money, $2.50-$3 a paint bottle is quite a bit, especially considering how many different colors i will need for painting chaos space marines. I've looked around and found some decent acrylic "craft" paint at a store called ACMOORE , which is a pretty respectable craft /paint supplies store where im from.
link to acrylic paint brand: A.C. Moore - Ceramcoat Acrylic Paint 2 Ounces-Midnight Blue/Opaque
Has anyone tried non-GW/Vajello paints on their models, and with what success?
My other dilemma would be finding quality brushes. I've found at the same store some very nice (looking) paint brushes of varied sizes. The smallest is very tiny, probably the size of a safety pin tip, and the largest probably the size of a shoe-string end.
A.C. Moore - Soft-Grip Pure Sable Detail & Round Brushes-Size 5/0
they all have different sizes, different ways of labeling size, round/flat/blunt/sharp , etc. Just have no idea what would do well. again, the reasons are monetary, $14 for 3 brushes from GW? no thanks. I'm positive ACMOORE has similar brushes, i just need to know which to get that would be good for model painting. The brushes i linked are only $3 for 2 brushes!
Link to GW's paint brush set: Games Workshop Online Store — Citadel Paint Brush Set
Also, any other supplies i should grab while im at this store?
My list so far is:
Corkboard(if i can find it)
Hardboard(for terrain basing and other applications)
Needle-nose pliers with nice cutting blade between plier mandibles
small brass rods
Anything that looks like it could be used for nurgle-fication(im planning on playing a death guard army)
Acrylic spraypaint white and black for basecoating
Small bag of sand
Sawdust?(not sure, might be nice for making a gaming table or something?)
green stuff(what is the real name for this stuff? 2 part epoxy?)
anything im missing?
thanks a lot for any help you can offer ;Y
The paint that you're looking at will have a very matt finish, it really probably will need varnishing. It'll also be rather thick so will need quite a bit of thinning.
Also I don't like the look of those brushes, the centre of balance looks to be in an odd posistion but that's just a personal thing really. The metal bit of the brushes looks rather chunky so you will have to be doubly careful not to get paint on it. I use Citadel brushes, they are expensive but will last for ages.
Milliput is a nice putty too, it has a thousand or so uses.
If you are buying cutters you want a flat edge not a rounded edge as you have specified, a flush cut is best.
Poly cement is a must if you are working with plastic and I'm pretty sure Elmers is a wood glue.
Brass rod can, mostly, be replaced by paperclips; far cheaper.
That should do it.
Up, up and away!
wow, thanks a bunch, that was exactly the kind of response i was looking for 8Y
the only question i need answered is what exactly is "green stuff" , i think ive read that its a two-part epoxy, but does it have a better name? i dont think i can go into a craft store and ask for green stuff and get what i need.
Well, the paint issue is really a very subjective one. Everyone has their brand and method they swear by. Myself, I use GW and Vallejo paints. I've seen some truly horrific results from cheap craft paints, but I've also seen some utterly awe-inspiring stuff painted with the same stuff. I'd say pick up a few colors and experiment. Different methods, different thinning ratios, you name it - practice until you can get the results you want.
Brushes are also a subjective point and there's a million options for these, too. Go to an art store and take a look at their expensive, high end brushes - they're comfortable to grip, well balanced, well built, and their bristles just plain feel good. That's what you're after. Cheaper brushes simply won't be as good, but the same principles apply - if the brush feels like it's good, it probably is. Poor brushes are often flimsy toothpicks with a wobbly metal ferrule and a scrap of unidentifiable hair stuffed into the end, and it's not really surprising - you tend to get what you pay for. Cheaper brushes work just fine for utility work, but I strongly recommend getting a few fairly nice, more costly brushes for your finish work. And above all else, TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOUR BRUSHES!!! Wash them thoroughly, don't mash the bristles against things, don't let paint dry out on them, and don't let paint get into the ferrule! An average, well maintained brush will outperform an abused masterpiece every time.
As Walex said, flat-faced, flush cutting snips work best - the difference is really staggering. Good plastic glue is also a great help, and you'll probably need to go find a modelling shop to find a worthwhile selection. or order online.
I like either GW's black spray primer, or Dupli-color grey automotive primer. A bit costly, but IMHO, it's worth it for a good foundation. Try what you like, though.
Don't buy superglue from a craft store unless they sell large quantities - Woodworking and industrial suppliers sell 10 or 20 times the amount of those tiny little krazy glue packets you find in most stores for half the price!
Here's an old modeller's trick for making an awesome filler "putty" yourself! Get some talcum powder (as plain and unscented as you can find), and superglue. Mix them approximately 1:1 into a paste, then apply it to your model with a toothpick or similar. It sticks like crazy, hardens fast, doesn't shrink, sands well, and cures rock hard. Just be careful - it is superglue after all, and it'll stick to everything if you make a mess!
Green Stuff is the commonly known name for Kneadatite epoxy putty. There's quite a few equivalents and alternates out there, but you may need to find a modelling shop to find people who have any idea what you're talking about - craft shops generally don't carry them. Check www.thewarstore.com for some good examples.
Hope that helps! If you need any further clarification, just ask!
An opinion from someone who uses paints 12 hours or so a day :
GW Paints - They are good! I think a lot of people bash them just because they are GW. I like GWs flippers better than others, but I still wish they had droppers. GW paints are best for their bright, vibrant colors. Metals are ok. Blood red is the best bright red ever. I buy them 5 pots at a time.
Reaper Masters and Vallejo- these are pretty much the same, except for metals which I will get to. These paints are in droppers, which saves a ton of paint and money. These are best for darker, natural colors such as browns, natural blues and greens. Their brighter colors arent so good. Reapers blood red is too natural for my tastes and dries about 5 shades pinker than what it is wet.
P3- The good: they have great natural tones, and for such a small line of paint, many good leather and dirt colors. the bad- there is a reason citadel dropped these pots years ago. The containers are terrible. Gw pots are way better. Also their metals are not good at all. In fact I threw the metals I bought to test out away, I didnt want to accidentally use them or think they would be ok to put on a clients mini in any amount.
Craft paint - A lot of people knock these, but they are great for terrain and bases. The only black and white I use is the huge containers from Apple Barrel. The black is great for base rims because you can waste half of it and be out $.25.
Therefore, I use a large mix of paints.
Superglue- the best is from Wal Mart. $1 gets you 4 tubes. I often buy 5 packs and that lasts me a while. $5 for a huge supply of superglue is a good deal.
Files and snips- this is a place not to skimp, as you will have these forever. You can buy cheapos but they will break on you, especially the files.
Other things I use almost every day:
Exacto blade (knock offs will do the average hobbyist)
Dremel Tool (not neccessary for everyone)
Hand sander and strips of paper (I use this more than the files actually) See it in my display board making video
A good water container. I have one that has holes for keeping brushes off the table (Which is very important if you assemble and paint in the same area!)
Think that covers a good bit. See ya all later!
Edit: forgot brushes. Get a Windsor and newton size 1. It will last you months and months and never need anything done to it. DO NOT get anything smaller than a 1 in a quality brush. You just dont need it and the larger brushes hold paint better and longer, and have the same tip.
Last edited by GMMStudios; February 16th, 2008 at 00:49.
if your too stinge and/or poor to even fork out for citadel paints then you shouldn't be getting into these niche markets (warhammer/40k) anyway.
The quality of the brush and the material it is made of really is important to a decent finish. As a rule of thumb I tend to stay away from the cheap and nasty ones completely. A decent fibre - like sable or teklon have, in my experience, worked quite well. A nice point is also important and as someone said, the smaller sizes aren't needed and can in fact hamper you work.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
Games Workshop charges an extreme amount of money for some of their models, sometimes $40+ dollars for one model, the cost of making the model is not anywhere near that, but they have to mark things up to make up for losses elsewhere and to pay for salaries, etc. So instead of buying from a place that marks things up so greatly, i can buy things from a craft store or hobby supplies store and get the same quality item without the needless markup. I'm here asking about quality and trying to find equivalent items so i get the same product, without the high price, so when i do buy GW's models, i have at least saved money on the supplies to paint and assemble the model.
whoops, no its because im too poor to afford it, and not just someone who doesnt like to overpay if he doesnt have to. Please mr moneybags, can i have some more soup please?
Anyway, i found some nice brushes at ACMOORE for less than GW would've charged + shipping, and i found some nice acrylic paints, primer spray, textured spraypaint(really cool stuff for making nice bases and textured terrain walls).
I'm new to painting and I have a similar dillema, i.e. choosing a non-GW/Valejo paints due to costs. Doing some research online I noted that a lot of people like Delta Ceramcoat paints. I personally bought a few bottles from Americana, CRAFT, Ceramcoat and FolkArt (just a bottle or two from each company) to try them out. Based on the "experiments" so far I think I gotta admit that GW paints are the best of the bunch. However, I'm not sure if they're so much better as to justify the price difference.
Anyway...I'd like to hear ppl's opinion about Ceramcoat paints on this forum. If you don't use GW/Valejo paints, what brand do you use and would recommend?
Also, has anyone stumbled upon a conversion chart for GW/Ceramcoat paints or any others for that matter? Such a chart would be really useful when painting models using GW's guidelines.
I myself found these two useful links but can't attest to their validity:
[PAINT] Citadel Color - FolkArt Acrylics Conversion Chart - RPGnet Forums
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Here's a nice rundown of the major paint companies:
Michael Casavant's Web Pages
Thansk for any advise.
Honestly, Citadel is a phenominal product when it comes to paints. Although, Testors is good too, if you're looking for an acrylic alternative.
And, the one thing you haveeee to get, if you are planning on putting together metal models, is epoxy. And no, I'm NOT talking about green stuff, which is an epoxy putty, that has a satisfying end result, but is rather flimsy and/or soft. I'm referring to the actual Epoxy, which is always sold in two tubes, where one is chemical hardener, and the other is resin. You mix the two liquids together, and get a very thick epoxy, which you can apply in between parts on, say, a hive tyrants body, in order to get a cement like hold. Also, these epoxies come in different strengths, measured in set time. I usually go for about 15 minutes. 5 is too short, and not a strong enough hold, in my opinion, and 30 is a bit too long to hold two pieces of metal together for.