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If you look at the forge-world whirlwind based on the mk3 rhino (for those who don't know what I'm talking about:
Now, notice the placement of the missle pod, as well as its size. To me, this piece of mobile artillary looks just like a razorback but with missles instead of lascannons. I mean, why not have this be a troop transport to. After all what else can all that extra room be for, extra ammo?, i doubt it, since mid battle reload is just a silly idea with this configuration.
The OLD whirlwind rules from second edition (yeah, i'm one of THEM guys) gave the old model a total of 5 shots, 2 missles per shot. And back then games rarely lasted longer then 5 turns so you never would run out of ammo. This new one 'feels' like instead of fireing them off in pairs each shot is just one missle (for you fluffy bastards out there, i kid cuz i car, it is also possible that even if still fired in pairs the missle pod is so long that there could feasably another set of missles stacked behind the first. Its feasable, don't argue about rocket wash and blast, trust me here), and a total of six shots, again fine for most standard battles at one shot a turn.
So whats all that extra space for....
And here is my idea:
I say wouldn't it look badass if you made the whirlwind's missle pod retractable. So that you could lower it into the main body of the tank where troops or turret carrages would go on other tanks. That way when enroute a whirlwind looks like a normal rhino but with an axtra sensor pod on it. Then when it gets to battle the top doors pop open and up comes the missles. And apparently there is a type of feild artillary or missle system in the REAL army that acts kind of like this.
The only problem is that i THINK the missle pod might be just barely to big to fit in the opening at the top of the rhino chasis. Anyway, i'm sure a skilled person could work around that, but here are the basics of the MOD as far as i can say without acually doing it.
The Rhino chassis comes with both the double doors for the rhino troop carrier, as well as the emplacement ring for the turret. So what you do is BEFORE putting the main body together glue the turret emplacement ring on from THE INSIDE of the tank body. That way the hinge mounts for the double doors remain intact. Then simply glue down the double doors splayed open as they would be once deployed.
So, what'dya think : : :
I see where you're coming from and I like the idea...
However, in my opinion the old whirlwind is cooler. Even though I like the new rhino better than the old one I kinda think that whirlies and vindies are different 'types' of tanks than rhinos, preds and razzies and should look different.
Just my little input...
Still, your idea is great and I'd love to see it carried out.
The modern stuff you're referring to could really be two different systems. One is the M106 and M125 mortar carriers (81mm and 106mm), both variants of the M113 APC (the U.S. army's equivalent to the Rhino). They have the mortar mounted inside the vehicle where there would normally be troops, mounted on a plate which allows the mortar mount to swivel within the vehicle. There is a hatch on the vehicle's roof which opens and which the mortar fires through. For more info go here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...round/m1064.htm
There's also the M270 Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS). Its role is really somewhat similar to the Whirlwind's (artillery rockets for taking out personell and lightly armored vehicles), though unlike the Whirlwind mod you're planning and the M106/M125 its weapon is not contained inside the vehicle. However, when the missile launcher is sitting point directly forward and prallel with the ground its entire front is hidden behind the cabin of the vehicle making the vehicle look like a big rectangle from the side. For more info go here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...ground/m270.htm
I really think this idea makes sense for the Whirlwind for this reason: The way the Whirlwind is currently modeled, the warheads are always quite exposed. I suspect that a hit on or near one of the warheads by even a weapon normally incapable of penetrating the Whirlwind's armor would detonate the warhead, at the very least completely blowing off the launcher and probably tearing through the Whirlwind's roof armor and leaving it a gutted wreck. If the launcher could be retracted under the Whirlwind's armor then this would do a lot to prevent such a catastrophic hit.
At the same time, if the launcher was retracted inside the Whirlwind and the Whirlwind suffered even a minor penetrating hit the risk of the missiles detonating and destroying and vehicle would be great. However the Whirlwind is not a front line tank, so I think the risk of a near miss by a mortar or artillery shell detonating the warheads while they were exposed would be much greater than the risk of the Whirlwind taking a full on penetrating shot.
Also, I can very much see the Whirlwind carrying a large amount of ammunition with it, since Space Marines are a very mobile force (see my post in "Tanks" in the Space Marine section) and that includes the Whirlwind. In fact, that is why the Space Marines have the Whirlwind, because any heavy artillery would never be able to keep up. Modern self-propelled howitzers have vehicles based off the same chassis but solely existing to carry additional amunition to reload the howitzer, often with a 1:1 ratio between ammo vehicles and gun vehicles. This kind of logistics tail would be tough for a Space Marine force to maintain, so the Whirlwind would need to carry as much ammo in the vehicle as possible. Even if in-battle reloads were rare, the crew could reload teh launcher between engagements. Thus keeping the launcher up above the vehicle would allow more ammo to be carried and provide an advantage. At the same time, having the launcher retract would allow the crew to reload the launcher without even getting outside of the protection of the vehicle. I think that would be an even bigger advantage than the extra ammo, as teh Whirlwind would be likely to be under indirect enemy artillery fire making stepping outside the protection of the armor quite dangerous.
I actually like the new Whirlwind better than the old one. The old one looked like it was carrying basic unguided rockets, not like a high tech piece of field artillery (see the link to the MLRS above). I think it would look even cooler with the launcher retractable.
As for them being different types, I see what you're saying, since they are self-propelled artillery, but I think using the same chassis makes sense since none of them need heavy tank armor, and this simplifies the logistics chain a Space Marine force must maintain to keep their vehicles running. The ease of maintenance of the Rhino adds to that, as the Marines don't need to carry as many maintenance personell with them or have their own troops spend as much time and effort maintaining their vehicles. Also, the vehicle is kind of a "blank canvas" that can be customized for tons of uses. Check out that first link I gave and click on the link on the top of the page that says "M113 family". The Rhino's similarities to the M113 are tremendous, so if we can do so many things with the M113, it makes sense that the Rhino would be just as versatile.
Nice idea though... why not just convert a spacemarine into a whirlwind by adding the whirlwing to the SM? NOTE: not the other way round though...
Convert a space marine into a whirlwind? How would that work? :
"Don't Delay-The best is the enemy of the good. By this I mean that a good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week. War is a very simple thing, and the determining characteristics are self-confidence, speed, and audacity. None of these things can ever be perfect, but they can be good."
-General George S. Patton, Jr.
I like it If it wasn't a forge world model I'd have a go