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  1. #1
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Primer - can you live without it?

    I might come out as a total noob now and a colossal disappointment to the whole community but here is my question: Should I use any primer?

    I am almost ready to paint my first tank. Never done one before, but I posted several models here in the gallery and I think that I am doing OK so far. I did over 50 models I'd say, and did not use a bit of primer to date

    What I do is use my trusty old toothbrush and some dishwashing liquid with warm water to get ANY trace of hand-oils or dirt from the models, dry them quickly and paint them with a brush with watered down chaos black. It usually takes two coats to get a good coverage, and the figs are handled with hands as little as possible during painting.

    I never had problems with doing it that way, and I feel that the paint sticks on pretty well. I think that it gives me good control over where the paint goes, as well as adequate thickness of paint (not too much not too little).

    Now, I’ve read that some people do not use primer as well. I have ready that some say that primer actually is black paint in spray. Other said that when priming black you still have to go over with a light coat of CB because the quality of color is a bit different, so I am not sure what to think any more...

    I was looking at the $10 bottle of primer today and was wondering: Maybe tanks are different from troop figures? But then after all, our paints are designed to stick to plastic and metal, and there is no way that I will be able to get to all the spots on the immolator tank without overdoing the exposed areas....

    So, is going for it with a coat of Chaos Black paint good enough?

    PS. Here are my pics from the gallery:

    http://www.librarium-online.com/gall...8/5/0/Can4.JPG
    http://www.librarium-online.com/gall.../Cannoness.JPG
    http://www.librarium-online.com/gall...0/PICT0013.JPG

    Last edited by SmokWawelski; March 8th, 2006 at 14:09.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Cypher_Redeemed's Avatar
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    Well if it works for you go ahead I myself always put on a layer of Black Krylon Spray
    "They shall all taste OBLIVION!,.....which tastes like Red Bull, which is disgusting."

  4. #3
    Thread Killer! slorak's Avatar
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    The big problem with not using a primer is that if the paint does start to come up or rub off - it will pull up in large chunks.

    Primer is specially formulated paint that has "tooth" to it. It embeds into the surface and allows for paint to embed into it much better.

    Not all primer is created equal and you definitely want to make sure you have black primer and not black spray paint.

    Cheers,

    -Mike

    Now offering an affordable Tournament Legal Quality Commission pricing. Find out more here!

  5. #4
    Senior Member JuliusGaiusCaesar's Avatar
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    If it works for you, and you are against primer, thn go ahead with what you do. Howeer, on anything metal, you really MUST use spray primer. Anything else usually ends up mixing. Also, a black primer will add a shading effect, making your models lok even better.
    BTW, your models that you linked look great!
    Et imperator Invocato Diabolus Daemonica Exorcist!

  6. #5
    Son of LO MouseC112's Avatar
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    I personally have never paid $10 for primer, i use a primer i can buy at Loews or Home Depot for $1, works nicely no complaints. I do use GW primer for large models such as tanks, this is more of a preference as i put a lot of attention into larger models as i find they are a stable/center piece of your army, as a result i want to ensure my paint stays. Considering i mainly play orks, i could care less if a few orks paint chips... no issues. And all my eldar are spray glossed which acts as a wonderful sealer.
    40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)

  7. #6
    Senior Member shango's Avatar
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    personally, I can't stand spray primer.
    It always comes out grainy or runny or has some other problem.

    I know about spraying from a proper distance, cleaning the models first, etc.

    I just find it easier to paint on chaos black or skull white.

    I do wish they still made the smelly primer.

    I think painting on the primer (chaos black ) works better.

  8. #7
    Thread Killer! slorak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shango
    personally, I can't stand spray primer.
    It always comes out grainy or runny or has some other problem.

    I know about spraying from a proper distance, cleaning the models first, etc.

    I just find it easier to paint on chaos black or skull white.

    I do wish they still made the smelly primer.

    I think painting on the primer (chaos black ) works better.
    The problem here is that Chaos Black and Skull white are in themselves not a primer. Unless the can or bottle is labeled as such it is simply paint. While paint can stay on without primer - if there is ever an instance to where the paint is ripped or rubbed too much it will lift off in larger sections.

    Quality of primer is not necessarily denoted by price. You also have to look at function as well. You want to stay away from automotive primers as they can fill details and since they were meant to be sanded tend to be more course than other primers. Krylon primer works adequately. GW primer while a bit pricey does perform remarkably well if used properly. Spraying distance and temperature really do matter.

    An alternative to traditional primers that works remarkably well is Folk Art Glass and Tile Medium. Thinned with water this forms a very tight seal against the figure and dries clear (or you can tint it with inks). It also provides excellent "tooth" for paint. The downside is that being a brush on liquid it takes a considerable amount of time vs. spray primer. For single figures or small batches though it works very well.

    Cheers,

    -Mike

    Now offering an affordable Tournament Legal Quality Commission pricing. Find out more here!

  9. #8
    Festo Diata TwoHats's Avatar
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    Your first two models look great, the third might just be a bad camera shot, but it looks runny.

    Considering those, it looks like your method is fine. I buy a $1 can of Flat Black generic spraypaint from Walmart and it works like a charm. "Like Black Plastic" I like to say. Some people swear by primers, and cleaning models and what; man, as soon as they're sprayed with that, you'll never have any problems afterward.
    2H - LEGIO HYDRA

  10. #9
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Thanks!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by slorak
    Primer is specially formulated paint that has "tooth" to it. It embeds into the surface and allows for paint to embed into it much better.
    ...and that was the selling point for me! Again! I guess that I decided that $10 is not that much after all, if you add up all the other expenses that I already acrued. And the Immolator (any tank) being as someone said above a "major" piece on the board, AND with lots of flat and large surfaces, I wanted the paint to stick as well as possible...

    However I still think that doing regurarly sized figs without primer is possible, with super clean figure and protective top coat. Given that you treat your pieces with respect (storage, transport).

    I myself got the GW primer for this project, and the model is already drying up for tommorows painting day. I like how it turned out too: no streaks or loss of detail. There are unprimed spots (Especially on the front. Forgot to mention - I have a "driver" from Penitent Engine strapped to the front of the Rhino chasis in a fassion simillar to what Barbarians were doing with captured defenders during castle sieges - strap them as human shields to their moving storm-towers. Very cool).

    I am going now to put down a coat of CB over the whole thing, add red accents and do the details/weathering. Can't wait I shall post pics soon, mayeb with my already finished Throne od Judgement Such a cool model

    Thanks to all for the input! Having the possibility to post here and get tips and friendly guidelines and criticism makes a lot of difference and helps me get better every time!

    :yes:

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