[2000] Mech Sisters - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Master of Those Damn Durable Swords Roland Durendal's Avatar
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    [2000] Mech Sisters

    I've edited my old list some and plan on changing some more soon. Really I'd like advice on this list, especially with the following question:

    Should I keep the Dominions or drop them for another Seraphim squad?

    HQ:

    Canoness, Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol, Blessed Weapon, Cloak
    Total: 117
    Faith: 2


    Canoness: Eviscerator, Inferno Pistol
    Faith: 2
    Total: 75
    (with Celestians)

    Elite:

    Celestian Squad
    9X Celestians, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Eviscerator,Rhino, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
    Total: 238
    Faith: 1

    Troops:

    Sister Squad
    10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Combiflamer, BoSL, Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
    Total: 215
    Faith: 1

    Sister Squad
    10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Combiflamer,BoSL, Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
    Total: 215
    Faith: 1

    Sister Squad
    10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Bolter-Flamer,Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
    Total: 210
    Faith: 1

    Fast Attack:

    Seraphim Squad
    7X Seraphim, 2X Twin Hand Flamers, VSS, Eviscerator, Meltabombs
    Total: 206
    Faith: 1

    Dominion Squad
    6X Dominions, 4X Meltaguns, VSS, Bolter-Plasma,BoSL, Immolator, Smoke Launchers, Holy Promethium, Extra Armor
    Total: 243
    Faith: 1

    Heavy Support:

    Retributor Squad
    9X Retributors, 4X Heavy Bolters, VSS
    Total: 173
    Faith: 1

    Exorcist, Pintle Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
    Total: 153

    Exorcist, Pintle Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
    Total: 153

    Army Total: 1998
    Total Faith: 12


    Game Plan: Basically I plan on using a tactic I've been playing around with and theorizing called the Iron Spear (also known to normal military people as a Mechanized Wedge). As for the units, the Exo's are my vehicle busters, the Rets are fire support, the Sera are flank harassers and possible vehicle hunters. They can also do some light assaulting in conjunction with Canoness #1. The Dominions are there to be apart of the Spear Tip (Wedge) and to hunt any big nasties that get to close. Or if I want to detach them from the formation, they can go hunting vehicles. The regular Sisters are the main force of the Wedge and are my OBJ takers. The Celestians are also a part of the Wedge and are OBJ Takers and possibly counter assault.

    I plan on writing a tactica eventually on how to use the Mech Wedge/Iron Spear tactic most effectively.

    Anyway comments, criticisms, etc. appreciated.

    If you win games against Nids with flamers (aside from the Inferno Cannon on a Hellhound), you're playing against opponents with stupidity of impressive magnitude.

    ~ Sokhar

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  3. #2
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    243!

    Well, it's a matter of preference if you should take more seraphim instead, but I would definitely try to get that juicy sack of victory points under control a bit =). 2 meltas and 2 flamers, drop promethium and combi weapon maybe?

    Hurtiest squad in the most threatening vehicle at the front of the wedge, but no harder to kill than anything else? You have to plan that these girls are giving themselves to the greater good and may or may not ever pull a trigger at all. Use the savings to give the regular squads books.
    Last edited by InquisitorAffe; August 2nd, 2007 at 21:32.

  4. #3
    Master of Those Damn Durable Swords Roland Durendal's Avatar
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    Yeah I was thinking of dropping the Bolter-Plas. As awesome as it'd be to jump out with that squad and have 2 plas shots, I figure the points can go elsewhere, like re-adding in a BoSL to Sister SQD 3.

    As for Sera V Dommies, the reason I'm torn is here's how I evaluated both units (with regards to my play style/what I want to do):

    Seraphim:
    Harass flanks/deny flanks to enemy (key in my eyes)
    OK Assault ability
    Great Unit for Disruption (due to Hit n Run) (again key)

    Dominions:
    Access to Immo (key b/c it adds another vehicle for the Wedge AND has the awesome flamer)
    Close Range Vehicle/High T killing ability

    And therein lies my problem. Haha.

    Dom's complete the Iron Spearhead and ensure that it will work (i.e. is an integral part). But the downside is it means one flank will be weaker then the other (protected by at most an Exo and Rets). The Seraphim solve this problem, but totally bone the tactic I'm playing with.

    Anymore advice on the list or Dom's v. Sera?
    If you win games against Nids with flamers (aside from the Inferno Cannon on a Hellhound), you're playing against opponents with stupidity of impressive magnitude.

    ~ Sokhar

  5. #4
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    Seraphim:
    Harass flanks/deny flanks to enemy (key in my eyes)
    OK Assault ability
    Great Unit for Disruption (due to Hit n Run) (again key)
    This if 40k not fantasy, we don't really deny flanks. Seraphim do harass flanks very well though, hit 'n run is good, but your better off shooting a unit to death then assaulting it.

    If you really want another vehicle on the ground drop the Retributors for another Exorcist, and drop the dominions for another squad of Seraphim.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

  6. #5
    Son of LO Plague_00's Avatar
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    i would go serphim because while tey may only be passable in assault they are the most passable assaulter we have and in a game of 2000 points you can't survive with just 1 counter assault unit
    "take my love, take my land, take me to where i cannot stand, i don't care i'm still free you can't take the sky from meee" ;- firefly

    "i'm gonna grant you your greatest wish i'm gonna show you a world without sin" ;- serentiy

    "I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar" ;- serenity

  7. #6
    Master of Those Damn Durable Swords Roland Durendal's Avatar
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    @ Path: I like how the Heavy Support is set up for now, but I see your point. My main issue isn't so much about "just anoher vehicle" but more along the lines of an offensive vehicle. What I mean is my consternation arises from the fact that I am play testing this tactic which for max efficiency requires 5 transports (3 is the minimum to pull it off, but 5 is the number needed for greatest effect) to rush down the field. Granted a 3rd Exo would be amazing and fill out the role of the Dommies for knocking out high T and Vehicles, the problem is that it can't rush forward and be a part of the Wedge. Though now that I think more about it, it is an interesting idea you bring up. I'll look into it.

    @Plague: Yeah I'm slowly being swayed to Seraphim. Not sure though. I'm thinking I'll playtest this list this weekend and see how it does, and then swap in Seraphim for the Dommies and playtest that after. Both times using the Wedge tactic (in one case w/ 5 transports rushing down field, in the other only 3).

    Question #2: if I did go for another Seraphim squad, what should I equip them with?
    If you win games against Nids with flamers (aside from the Inferno Cannon on a Hellhound), you're playing against opponents with stupidity of impressive magnitude.

    ~ Sokhar

  8. #7
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    Question #2: if I did go for another Seraphim squad, what should I equip them with?
    I'd say equip them the same way as the other squad, the squad you already have is perfectly capable of taking out both tanks and troops.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

  9. #8
    Member stjohn70's Avatar
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    Seraphim do not need Melta bombs... ever. Even if I'm mis-reading it and you only have it on the VSS, she has an Eviscerator. Three attacks at Str 6 + 2D6 are better than one attack at Str 8 + 2D6.
    The squad should have 8 total members. This allows you to get off any Act of Faith (getting help from the Simulacrum Imperialis the VSS has) and suffer a casualty or two and still be highly effective.

    The "optimal" Seraphim build is:
    8 total models
    5 w/ TL Bolt Pistols
    2 w/ TL Hand Flamers
    1 VSS w/ Eviscerator and Book of St Lucius
    230 pts.

  10. #9
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    At 2k points, there are several inherent weaknesses in your list. First off, you will be going up against a lot of armies that have better bells and whistles than you do at that point level. Any mobile mech force (read tau/eldar) will be an extreme challenge even though you are mechanized. The basic reason is that all of your AT is riding on two exorcists. I can't tell you the number of times I have rolled a 1 or a 2 on shots fired and then ended up with no results for the turn. Its a great tank but there are many things which will counter the FA 13 and once you lose them (and you will), your effective range has dropped to 12". Your list is great against horde armies with the flamers. You will be hard pressed to hurt devil fish and falcons that you will see a lot of at 2k. Some melta guns in your rhino squads could help alleviate that.

    Another huge weakness, you haven't given out a single book. They are cheap and make the squads near fearless. Put them in your units and you won't regret it.


    HQ:

    Canoness, Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol, Blessed Weapon, Cloak
    Total: 117
    Faith: 2


    Canoness: Eviscerator, Inferno Pistol
    Faith: 2
    Total: 75
    (with Celestians)
    Celestian Squad
    9X Celestians, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Eviscerator,Rhino, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
    Total: 238
    Faith: 1
    Your jump canoness has 12" movement all the time. Your Ret canoness is limited to a smaller range via the rhino. Give your jump canoness the 6" range IP where her mobility will ensure she gets more chances to use it. When I take a retinue like that, I generally give my ret canoness a plas pistol. At a 2+ save, she doens't have to worry and her range is now the same as a rapid fire bolter.

    The biggest mistake is neither has a book.


    Troops:

    Sister Squad
    10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Combiflamer, BoSL, Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
    Total: 215
    Faith: 1

    Sister Squad
    10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Combiflamer,BoSL, Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
    Total: 215
    Faith: 1

    Sister Squad
    10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, VSS, Bolter-Flamer,Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
    Total: 210
    Faith: 1
    While not the best AT, melta guns instead of a flamer can help greatly when your squad gets targets of opportunity like DN's. Being able to wound and intsta-kill an IC or hurt an MC is nice to have.

    Again, you have no leadership help from the book of St. Lucius.

    Fast Attack:

    Seraphim Squad
    7X Seraphim, 2X Twin Hand Flamers, VSS, Eviscerator, Meltabombs
    Total: 206
    Faith: 1
    Melta bombs are a waste. Why not take a twin linked inferno pistol? How often will you get a chance to hit a vehicle that won't take a 4 or more likely a 6 to hit? Most tanks move at least enough to get the 4+ requirement. Wait until you try and hit a skimmer on a 6. Thats why I chuckle a little when the evis is pointed out to be good AT. If you roll a lot of 6's, you will be golden. If you don't, you will be hurting.

    Dominion Squad
    6X Dominions, 4X Meltaguns, VSS, Bolter-Plasma,BoSL, Immolator, Smoke Launchers, Holy Promethium, Extra Armor
    Total: 243
    Faith: 1
    Here is a big point sink. People will shoot it and leave your dominioes on foot. Its still a rhino armor-wise. Everyone tries out this and the 4 flamer combo. Most find out it is a bit under performing.

    You are paying for holy promethium but its a bit redundant. You will most likely already be forcing the squad to take the 75% leadership check by the virtue that the immo not only auto-hits, but also gets to re-roll wounds.

    Heavy Support:

    Retributor Squad
    9X Retributors, 4X Heavy Bolters, VSS
    Total: 173
    Faith: 1
    Pretty standard set up which works well.

    Exorcist, Pintle Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
    Total: 153

    Exorcist, Pintle Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
    Total: 153
    Smoke and pintle stormbolters are a waste of points. You don't need them. You will learn you need to fire off the exo missles every turn possible because you will lose your tank. Having smoke which doesn't allow you to fire gives you very little. The pintle weapon is also a waste of points. Any weapon destroyed hits will have your opponent choosing to remove the exo launcher. You are statistically more likely to have the tank imobilized or destroyed than getting the benefit of having two weapons. As long as the tank isn't imobilized, it's scoring.

    Game Plan: Basically I plan on using a tactic I've been playing around with and theorizing called the Iron Spear (also known to normal military people as a Mechanized Wedge). As for the units, the Exo's are my vehicle busters, the Rets are fire support, the Sera are flank harassers and possible vehicle hunters. They can also do some light assaulting in conjunction with Canoness #1. The Dominions are there to be apart of the Spear Tip (Wedge) and to hunt any big nasties that get to close. Or if I want to detach them from the formation, they can go hunting vehicles. The regular Sisters are the main force of the Wedge and are my OBJ takers. The Celestians are also a part of the Wedge and are OBJ Takers and possibly counter assault.
    Your spear tactic looks good on paper but it neglects to factor in that rhino rushes rely on two turn survivability. Usually, by turn two, you have used your smoke and any further fire may be pen hits. It is possible to use the shell tactic to leapfrog rhinos (having half screen each other taking turns to deploy smoke) to get an extra turn. My girls are usually out of their rhinos by turn three as I don't want to get entangled.

    Another weakness is you may take first turn fire. So if you deploy behind cover to protect your rhinos, you waste some movement coming from around cover. Unfortunately, their is a large number of AT available to all armies. A11 is acceptable on turns when it is covered with smoke. If your front tank gets imobilized, you end up using movement to go around it.

    As mentioned above, your sera squads won't be very effective with melta bombs/Evis. When you factor in the chance to hit, they lose effectiveness. Its why I now bring a IP/flamer combo in my sera squads. I find I get a lot of chances to use the twin linked IP.

    As to whether to drop the dominoes for a second sera squad, do what you suggest and proxy out several games. You will always wonder if you don't.

    Sadly, most of the mech lists look very similar. The reason being is those combos generally work better.

  11. #10
    Master of Those Damn Durable Swords Roland Durendal's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input!

    Looking at it, I've realized that yes Meltabombs on the Sera are a waste so I'm going to drop them.

    As for books, half my squads have them, the other half don't. I originally had them liberally scattered throughout, but then decided to tone it down some (mainly to save points). Anyway, good point on the SB and Smoke on the Exos...if I drop them I can then add 2-3 more books which is a good idea.

    As for the Jump Canoness having the IP....she did originally...haha...but I took it away b/c I figured w/ the BW she is better acting as a unit to aid in counter assault and not hunting tanks. Though I see the point about why it'd be more useful with her.

    The reason I originally didn't put meltaguns in the line squad was twofold:
    1). It seemed almost like splitting their role. Instead of making them dedicated AT or dedicated horde, giving a HF and Melta is trying to do jack of all trades. I learned playing guard that doing so usually is not the best idea, and it's better to specialize the task for each unit.
    2). A lot of Mech Sister lists I've seen use this combo, so I wanted to try something used a little less

    But would adding MGs into 1 or 2 of the line squads really bolster the overall combat effective of the army as a whole?

    Has anyone actually seen a battle with a Mech Sisters list do well in a regular game, esp. against other Mech armies (like Tau/Edlar)? In a toruny?

    As for the Immo....just re-read HP rules and I am gonna drop it. Waste of points


    Thanks all!
    If you win games against Nids with flamers (aside from the Inferno Cannon on a Hellhound), you're playing against opponents with stupidity of impressive magnitude.

    ~ Sokhar

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