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  1. #1
    Member BadNewRanger's Avatar
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    1500 Space Marines

    1500 Points 49 Models


    HQ
    155 - Epsolitary - Terminator Armor, Might of Heroes, Storm of the Emperor’s Wrath

    Elites
    240 - 5 Terminators - x2 Assault Cannons
    240 - 5 Terminators - x2 Assault Cannons

    Troops
    250 - 10 Space Marines - Veteran Sergeant, Power Fist, x2 Plasma Guns, Frag Grenades, True Grit, Counter Attack
    250 - 10 Space Marines - Veteran Sergeant, Power Fist, x2 Plasma Guns, Frag Grenades, True Grit, Counter Attack
    105 - 6 Space Marines - Lascannon
    105 - 6 Space Marines - Lascannon

    Fast Attack

    Heavy Support
    150 - 6 Space Marines - 4 Heavy Bolters


    Traits
    Courageous, Stern

    Cleanse and Purify
    Trust your battle brothers

    Drawbacks
    Flesh over steal
    Die standing

    Quick thing before someone else points it out, Yes I know I have almost no mobility other then deepstriking, and yes I only have one lascannon lol. Everyone knows general tactics so i'm sure you can guess what I will do with the squads So what are all your opinions? Have questions about what I plan to do or why I have done what ask me.

    Last edited by BadNewRanger; October 17th, 2007 at 23:12.
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  3. #2
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    I kind of like your list. You don't really need the frags on your true grit marines, if you ask me, but that depends on what exactly you care to do with them.

    A problem I see, though, is that you've got only one range 48" weapon that is quite negligible and 6 range 36" weapons. Your terminators of course can advance and still shoot 24", but if you deep-strike them they're not available at first. The rest of your army shoots only 12" when advancing or 24" when stationary. Whoever I am: I'd just stand back and shoot you. Real hard.
    Necrons for example would probably just harass you with that monolith you're not really going to down with that single lascannon (be lucky, be very lucky...) and all his S6 R36" weaponry, while staying back and rapid-firing away at your terminators once they deep-strike. A standard Necron army would probably literally tear you apart.

    But I wouldn't know what exactly to change in detail (without any major adaptions). I don't know what you're going against. If it's Tyranids for example I would not do the following. But against others drop podding those true grit squads is very effective! Maybe even think about changing the whole list to suitable drop podding one (you can leave the terminators, make on a command squad for the librarian, though, and then fill up the army with tactical squads).
    Sorry I am not very elaborate here. I'm under time pressure because my bus to university is leaving in 10 minutes. Take care, good luck with the list and have fun gaming!

  4. #3
    Member BadNewRanger's Avatar
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    I know what you mean lol. The frags are when I assault anything in cover. I play at a games workshop so I face just about everything. Monoliths I ignore entirley, I aim right for the phase out. If I move my army around right I can really negate the range thing, Also holding objectives I have plenty of high strength units able to sit on an objective and shoot off of it. Worst case scenario is an army fully mobile and 48" shots all around. When it gets around to mobility im not too worried, as long as I can shoot you, I am happy.
    1750 - Imperial Guard
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    2250 - Imperial Navy
    2500 - Dwarfs

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadNewRanger View Post

    HQ
    165 - Epsolitary - Terminator Armor, Familiar, Might of Heroes, Storm of the Emperor’s Wrath
    Two things I notice.

    Lack of anti-tank (despite what people think, rending does not make for a reliable anti-tank option unless you're a tyranid and have more rending then anyone has a right to). 8 potential rend shots off of the assault cannons, coming from two squads doesn't really seem that hot (and while you're pinging shots off a tank, the enemy infantry you could've erradicated is marching up at you).

    Second point...
    The librarian is illegal. Familiars don't have the magical little "T" in the armory and therefore can't be taken by units in terminator armor.

  6. #5
    Member BadNewRanger's Avatar
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    ....... Poo....... So apparently if you have nasty armor a bird won't follow you around. .... I'll put the points someplace else. Anyways, I almost never play tanks, and when I do they are light armor (AV 10-12). But yeah, in the ways of anti armor, I do lack. Rending so far has been reliable in popping anything I need killed. I do need to find a way to put more reliable anti tank in my army. Any of you have suggestions? I am maybe thinking of dropping a Dev squad for a Las Plas squad of marines. Bringing my total up to two lascannons but losing 3 heavy bolters I still need to play test the list.



    ** Had to redo the list due to me messing up points. Check out the changes I made.
    Last edited by BadNewRanger; October 17th, 2007 at 23:14.
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  7. #6
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    I disagree with Spook2k5 that the assault cannon does not make up for the anti-tank potential of a lascannon (barring the range issue). (Apart from the range issue) the assault cannon is superior to the lascannon against any AV-rating from 10 to 14 (barring the monolith with its special rules negating rending). If you want numbers just ask for them. (It's basically 4 lower-range but more mobile weapons superior to even twin-linked lascannons in most cases, so the army has an equivalent to 6 lascannons on the field which is okay for anti-tank.)
    Of course it would be nice having the assault cannons shoot at targets other than tanks. But if you buy more lascannons against the tanks you won't have the points to buy assault cannons to shoot at something else. At least with the assault cannons you are prepared for anything (except a monolith) to come, and that certainly comes in handy some time or the other.

    I see that your frags are for assaulting enemy troops in cover (obviously, because that's exactly what they are made for ). But I tend to see the strength of true grit / counter-attack squads in shooting. In shooting and BEING assaulted. A 10-man true grit squad with counter-attack, more so with cleanse and purify, that sits in cover is a really, really nasty thing. You get full shooting power, fight as if equipped with close combat weapons nonetheless and guarantee you are using all your unit's models to full potential. Striking at I10 helps that much more... Maybe the points could be put to use elsewhere. (More models for the devastator squad?)
    I also see how your army's units are superb for holding objectives (as just described above), but I still think that a 6" move and 12" firing range are not very much. But that's your choice, of course. And about your new librarian: a librarian can always use the extra attack from a second close combat weapon for his force weapon attacks (against high-T multi-W creatures, for example). I know it is expensive in terminator armor (either plasma pistol or power weapon), but think about it.

  8. #7
    Member BadNewRanger's Avatar
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    Those grenades have been like a God send to me, I just cant bring myself to leave them lol. The only weapon I can take to give me an Extra attack is a power weapon. I took the Might of Heroes to replace that. But should it come to that I may take it lol. I think I am good on Anti armor/Anti Infantry On this list now. What do you think?
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Archer View Post
    I disagree with Spook2k5 that the assault cannon does not make up for the anti-tank potential of a lascannon (barring the range issue). (Apart from the range issue) the assault cannon is superior to the lascannon against any AV-rating from 10 to 14 (barring the monolith with its special rules negating rending). If you want numbers just ask for them. (It's basically 4 lower-range but more mobile weapons superior to even twin-linked lascannons in most cases, so the army has an equivalent to 6 lascannons on the field which is okay for anti-tank.)
    Of course it would be nice having the assault cannons shoot at targets other than tanks. But if you buy more lascannons against the tanks you won't have the points to buy assault cannons to shoot at something else. At least with the assault cannons you are prepared for anything (except a monolith) to come, and that certainly comes in handy some time or the other.
    I agree on the true grit stuff (which is why it isn't quoted )

    However, on the issue of anti-tank. Anti-tank doesn't merely flow from the font of His Holy Lascannon. Missile launchers also represent a good anti-tank method.

    I'm a Cleanse and Purify nut myself (although I long ago traded out true grit for infiltrating devestators), and I do acknowledge that plasma makes for some truly great side-armor shots on occasion since it can punch through side armor 11 and 12 with relative ease and you generally only see higher on a MBT.

    None the less, keeping in mind this is all my opinion, I'd rather see more redundancy in the list. The 6man las cannon team is good, I used it in 'Ard Boyz to Devestating Effect against a tau player. But its static and eventually the enemy is going to just not be where-ever that lascannon goes.

    As for the rending... You rend only on 6s rolled for your penetration rolls. So this means...

    You have 8 potential hits (admittedly at Marine ballistic skill)...so since I'm not Mr. Mathhammer, lets say you get really lucky and hit on 2/3s of them...bam...6 hits.

    NOW..of those six hits, you need to roll 6s, to get a chance to hit the poor bastard with a rending shot, at which point you do indeed have a good chance of getting through just about any armor.

    Alright, since we have six hits, lets say we get that 1 in six chance, once.

    We just scored the typical assault cannon str + 6 hit, and we roll our dice for additional armor penetration.

    Now thats all well and good, but I don't like having to rely on it if I've got tanks, dreadnoughts and other sorts of madness on me, especially since you're not likely to be able to concentrate assault cannon fire in one place (if all those terminators are marching around together they're aching for a vindicator cannon shot, leman russ fire, basilisks...etc).

    If you want em, by all means, go for it! Some folks, like Red up there, believe rending is the way to go.
    All I ask is you keep this in mind.

  10. #9
    Member BadNewRanger's Avatar
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    I understand what you mean but look at it this way, You kill a dread with rending, you effectively earned half your points back if not more in one volley, You kill a Leman russ, thats over half your points. Say you even fire at a Land Raider, You get that one six you need , you just need a 3 to pen the tank. In my new list here you see I have the AC and two las cannons, so I mean for marines, I have decent anti tank here.
    1750 - Imperial Guard
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    2500 - Dwarfs

  11. #10
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    I agree that redundancy on anti-tank is hardly ever wrong. But when I'm not playing my gunline army I rely solely on meltas and assault cannons (bike and drop pod armies) for anti-tank and have fared very well with that. But of course this probably comes down to a matter of taste discussion, so I do not want to stress this matter too far.
    But to defend those terminators: Their operational range movement plus assault cannon range (plus eventual deep-strike) can really make up for any range/cover/tough armor issues, while they are pretty tough and resilient squads (russ battle cannons and basilisks won't pierce their armor compared to your normal heavy weapon toting space marine, while against vindicators they at least will still have their invulnerable save with a decent chance of staying alive - and its short range will cause it, if you play wisely, to be destroyed before it can even deliver its load). The assault cannons aren't very expensive, especially since you can have two of them in a squad and hurt virtually anthing (except the monolith again) with them, and that pretty well! Take a look at the table below to see the reliability of an assault cannon compared to that of a lascannon and then consider two of these running around in a single mobile squad. You don't need to mass firepower, as deep-striking allows you to vanquish any sources of ouch (for example the basilisk you mentioned that your other heavy weapons troops will probably not even draw a line of sight to for the entire game) on the turn they come in. And there's also nothing that can bind them in close combat and keep them from shooting for very long.

    I do think terminators with two assault cannons are a very fine complement to any army, and indeed a reliable source of anti-tank /-monstrous creatures goodness.
    Last edited by Red Archer; October 24th, 2007 at 21:48. Reason: table moved to another webspace: URL changed.

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