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  1. #1
    I'm Back! Koss's Avatar
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    2000pts daemon hunters... entertaining the idea

    Im entertaining myself with the idea of maybe putting my chaos aside for a while and starting daemon hunters. I'm getting a bit tired of being the badguy and want to try the other side for a while. I think i will start small, one unit of grey knights or something, but eventually i want to build a list like the one below. please coment so i can make it better.

    2000pts inquisition

    Inquisitor w/ storm bolter = 140pts
    Gun servitor w/ plasma cannon
    Two guardsmen w/ plasma guns.
    Sage

    Eversor assassin = 95pts

    10 grey knights w/ psycannon = 300pts

    10 grey knights w/ psycannon = 300pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 flamers, Rhino (w/ smoke and psycannon bolts) = 173pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 flamers, Rhino (w/ smoke and psycannon bolts) = 173pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 flamers, Rhino (w/ smoke and psycannon bolts) = 173pts

    1 leman Russ battle tank = 145pts

    Land raider = 250pts

    Land raider = 250pts

    That is not dead which may eternal lie,
    for in strange aeons even death may die.

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  3. #2
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Lots of problems..

    1. to get Land raiders, you need a Grey Knight hero
    2. Either max out grey knights as vanilla or keep them only 6-8 with duel psycannon
    3. you cannot take a lemon russ without inducting at least 2 infantry platoons // duds in chimera squads.
    4. Your inquisitor should always have a psycannon!!!!!! They are too cool to not have one...
    5. Flamer storm troopers are cool, but for the mass bolter fire you already have, the flamers are just over kill, i would go a mix between dual plasma and dual meltas...

    Those are just some things to improve.

    I like the idea of your list, but dont forget, Pretty much everything but your inquisitor is mobile, i love it.

  4. #3
    Senior Member daisho's Avatar
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    6. There is no HQ!? As if the Inquisitor would be HQ it has to be an Inquisitor Lord.
    7. Get a second Sage
    8. Psycannon bolts is a waste on a vehicle with only a Stormbolter, on a Landraider Crusader I'd take them...

  5. #4
    Member cl30003000's Avatar
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    The HQ is packing some very low AP, but the problem is range and mobility. The Cannon can only fire if you sit still while it has a longer range you wasted the plama guns and storm bolter. Now if the enemy gets close you want to more up and rapid fire with the guns which counts as moving so you can't fire your PC. Right there is a conflict within the squad, very situationally I'll say myself. I say either make a stable firing base by giving the Inquisitor a Psycannon, add some Heavy bolter servitors to replace the PG and make your entire squad range 36" Adding another sage will also let you re-roll a miss, especially useful if you roll a 1 with your plasma cannon.

    If you like low AP, give them all PG or Meltaguns and stick them in a rhino to rush vehicles or heavy armored troops.

    The psycannon bolts can only beg iven to SGT ontop of that he has to have a bolt type weapon

    Also I do not think that the Crusader can use the Psy bolts for the hurricanes as the vehicle upgrade specifically mentions heavy and storm bolters while the infantry says anything with bolter in its name

    I'm not a fan of flamers because they're quite tricky to use because anything they are good at killing is usually pretty mobile, but if you like them I'm not going to tell you not to use them it's your army after all 8Y

    Same thing with the Landraiders, although I prefer two dreads to one LR, but I will take the Crusader as that much Anti-infantry goodness is always welcomed

    Other side notes already mentioned you need a GK hero for any Gk vehicles, and you need two units of IG to induct a tank, if your looking for numbers and guns take the platoons, but I think to fit your mobile list add the Armored fist squad, throw in some teleport homers in your ISTs, throw the re-roll reserves on the leman russ, and then make your GK's fast attack
    I'm not here for the respect, just here to spread the clarity of a very complicated game

  6. #5
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn View Post
    Im entertaining myself with the idea of maybe putting my chaos aside for a while and starting daemon hunters. I'm getting a bit tired of being the badguy and want to try the other side for a while.
    Good on you! We're always happy to accept lapsed evildoers into the fold. Once you start down the path of the Light side, forever will it dominate your destiny. GKs FTW!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    I think i will start small, one unit of grey knights or something,
    Actually, it'd be more productive to aim for a 1000 pt list first. Get familiar with it, mix in an alternate unit or two once in a while, and before you know it, you'll have 1500+ pts to choose from. And so it goes....
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    but eventually i want to build a list like the one below. please coment so i can make it better.
    We aim to please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foreswron
    Inquisitor w/ storm bolter = 140pts
    Gun servitor w/ plasma cannon
    Two guardsmen w/ plasma guns.
    Sage
    Good start on a shooty firebase. But the vet IG plasma don't mesh well with the plasma cannon, and neither does the stormbolter on the I-lord. Psycannons are fantastic weapons, and unique to the DH to boot. Take 'em where it's reasonable to get 'em. And an Inquisitor is a tried and true spot. What you want is, at a minimum, something like the following:

    I-lord, psycannon
    plasma cannon servitor
    2 heavy bolter servitors
    2 sages

    The 2nd sage gives you a valuable reroll that helps to keep your PC servitor alive. At least one mystic is also highly recommended, two is ideal. Points permitting, add in 1-3 acolytes with bolters for cheap ablative wounds that are capable of putting out some fire support, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    Eversor assassin = 95pts
    Fun!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    10 grey knights w/ psycannon = 300pts

    10 grey knights w/ psycannon = 300pts
    Diggums Hammer appears to be favoring squads like these, but I've never been convinced that mixing special weapons into your basic PAGK squads is a good idea. IMHO, PAGKs should (almost) always be vanilla. Taking special weapons costs you points -- that could have been spent getting even more vanilla GKs! -- yet robs the GKs themselves of everything that distinguishes them from basic Space Marines. Essentially, instead of having two GK supermen, you get one lame-o space marine. Just not a quality trade-off in most cases.

    On the march, vanilla GKs can lay down a ferocious amount of dakka, but are just as threatening in assault. One or two psycannons actually make the dakka aspect awkward, as the range of the psycannons don't keep up with stormbolters while the squad is on the move. And we already know that special-weapon-toting GKs are expensive dead weights in assault.

    I tend to think that psycannons should go primarily on Inquisitors and GK terminators. (GKTs suffer no penalties for upgrading to psycannons but get all the benefits.) Only in relatively large pure GK lists would I recommend dedicating a GK squad to psycannon fire support. Such "mini-purgation" squads (Diggums' loverly term) should be 5-6 models, 2x psycannons, and deployed in cover. The cover and the shrouding make good protection for the squad as it stays static and throws dakka downrange.

    One final note: if you continue to satisfy your force org Troop requirements with ISTs, you have every incentive to slot your GKs as FA choices. You aren't required to deep strike them, but the option is there. And if you footslog them -- my favorite choice -- you get to deploy them last on the board for maximum tactical advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 flamers, Rhino (w/ smoke and psycannon bolts) = 173pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 flamers, Rhino (w/ smoke and psycannon bolts) = 173pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 flamers, Rhino (w/ smoke and psycannon bolts) = 173pts
    Nice, large IST squads, mounted. That's the good part. The bad is your choice of special weapons and the psybolts upgrade on the Rhino.

    Regarding the special weapons, you don't want to take flamers on ISTs. That slots them into an assault role, a role that is much better filled by GKs. You should instead select weapons options that cover for standard GK weaknesses, namely, plasma or melta. Plasma guns provide high-strength, low-AP dakka that meshes perfectly with the majority hellguns. Especially when paired with a Chimera, plasma squads make excellent light firebases. Use melta guns to go tank-hunting, a role that the GKs are miserable at.

    Regarding the psybolts, they're very expensive for very little actual benefit. That's points that could be better spent elsewhere. But, in any case, you can't take 'em on IST Rhinos. Psybolts can only be taken on GK vehicles; it's not listed in the upgrade options on page 30 of the DH codex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    1 leman Russ battle tank = 145pts
    Great tank, but illegal in this list. You must take two of the inducted IG troops choices first, which means platoons and/or armoured fist squads. If you opt for IG, drop one or two of your IST squads (moving one of your GK squads to Troops to fulfill force org minimums as necessary; inducted units can't be used for that purpose).

    However, you don't need IG to make for a competitive DH list. Depends on what you like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kossolax_the_Foresworn
    Land raider = 250pts

    Land raider = 250pts
    These are beasts, and it's good that you took two. (Taking just one is not recommended.) However, they are also illegal in your current list. You must take a GK Hero as one of your HQ choices to use any GK vehicles. (See the "Important Note" on p. 32 of the DH codex.)

    There are entire tacticas concerning the proper use of land raiders in the DH, and there are strong advocates both for and against their use. One constant, however, is that if you choose to use land raiders, you must make them the centerpiece of your army tactics. The tanks become the workhorses of the list, and the infantry become the supporting players. In fact, in a 2000 pt list, I'd suggest that if you want to use land raiders at all you should take three.

    Personally, it's the GKs themselves that attracted me to the army, so I dislike using land raiders. I prefer TLLC/ML dreads for my heavy support/anti-armour, leaving me plenty of points available to build a solid GK-centric infantry list.

    If you use raiders, it is generally recommended that you mount smallish (5-6 model) GK squads inside 'em. Taking a single incinerator in such squads can be handy for when the raider tank shocks a unit into a line, then the GKs assault out, flaming a bunch of enemy models (now conveniently lined up) on the charge.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  7. #6
    I'm Back! Koss's Avatar
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    2004pts inquisition

    Grand master = 145pts

    10 grey knights = 275pts

    10 grey knights = 275pts

    10 grey knights = 275pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 melta guns, Rhino (w/ smoke) = 178pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 melta guns, Rhino (w/ smoke) = 178pts

    10 inquisitorial storm troopers
    2 plasma guns, Rhino (w/ smoke) = 178pts

    Land raider = 250pts

    Land raider = 250pts
    That is not dead which may eternal lie,
    for in strange aeons even death may die.

  8. #7
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Not bad! If you're not going to plant your GM in a retinue, however, then you'd be better off downgrading to a BC with a psycannon. His IC status will prevent him from getting targeted, and he makes a deadly mobile sniping platform that can pitch into an assault as necessary.

    With the points you save, you can get extra armour on all your vehicles. It's not really an optional upgrade; you really need to have it everywhere.

    I'd also spring for smokes on the land raiders, too.

    That would still leave you with several points left over for things like targeters, frag grenades, and possibly melta bombs on your Justicars. And you'd have a solid list there.

    The only other change worth considering is giving an incinerator to two of your GK squads and mounting them in the raiders. Deep strike the 3rd squad, and you'd have a virtually 100% mechanized list.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  9. #8
    Senior Member daisho's Avatar
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    If you suggest taking the Landraiders as transport for the GK squads, I would take Landraider Crusaders instead (REALLY), because they also do have enough anti tank power (TL-Assault Cannon & Multimelta is pretty good and as you want to use the LRs as transport range should not be the problem ... and you can fire them on the move) in addition to massive anti infantry firepower at only X points more than a normal raider.
    So if you don't plan on stick your Landraiders in the backyard ... take Landraider Crusaders.

    I like this combo very much:

    Land Raider Crusader with Smokelaunchers, Pintle-Mounted Stormbolter and Psycannon Bolts.

    a) Smokelaunchers > In case you need them/you can't shoot
    b) Pintle-Mounted Stormbolter > Cause the XX points are best invested on a Armour YY vehicle. (Of course you don't have to take it if you don't want to)
    c) Psycannon Bolts > Because they affect every weapon on the LRC except the Multimelta which is pretty nice. (Finally a use for Psycannon Bolts)
    Last edited by daisho; December 4th, 2007 at 20:09.

  10. #9
    Member cl30003000's Avatar
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    I thought the psybolts didnt work for the crusader because of the wording
    I'm not here for the respect, just here to spread the clarity of a very complicated game

  11. #10
    Senior Member daisho's Avatar
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    Hm ... only Stormbolters and Heavy Bolters work with Psycannon Bolts? What a waste ... that has to be a joke :rolleyes:

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