1500 Tournament Static List - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,750
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    288 (x6)

    1500 Tournament Static List

    Planetary Governor
    All Comers – Tournament Style Unchanging List

    1500 points

    Doctrine Used

    Allow Storm Troopers
    Heavy Weapon Platoons
    Special Weapons Squads
    Skills Hardened Veterans
    Drop Troops




    HQ 23 259
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Junior Officer 5 89
    CCW, Storm Bolter
    4 x Veterans with Storm Bolters

    Special Weapons Team 6 45
    Demo Charge, CCWs and LPs

    Special Weapons Team 6 45
    Demo Charge, Lasguns

    Heavy Bolter Support Squad 6 80
    3 x Heavy Bolters



    Elite 18 239
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    6 Veterans 6 77
    3 Grenade Launchers,

    6 Storm Troopers 6 92
    2x Plasma Guns,
    Deep Strike

    6 Veterans 6 70
    Missile Launcher, surveyor



    Alpha Platoon 4( 40 305
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HQ Squad 5 40
    Junior Officer, 4 Staff

    Squad A-1 10 75
    Autocannon,

    Squad A-2 10 75
    Autocannon,

    Squad A-3 10 75
    Missile Launcher,

    Remnants A-4 5 40
    Melta Gun



    Beta Platoon 4( 40 305
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HQ Squad 5 40
    Junior Officer, 4 Staff

    Squad B-1 10 75
    Missile Launcher,

    Squad B-2 10 75
    Missile Launcher,

    Squad B-3 10 70
    Autocannon,

    Remnants B-4 5 40
    Melta Gun



    Fast Attack 4( 1 60

    Sentinel 1 60
    Heavy Flamer, Improved Comms



    Heavy Support 4( 23 280
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Junior Officer and Staff 5 40

    MSS 6 80
    Mortar x 3

    MSS 6 80
    Mortar x 3

    HBSS 6 80
    Heavy Bolter x 3

    I hope you are able to help. I have about 50 points left and I don't know what to do with them. I like the mix here but can't decide where to go with the rest. I would really appreciate any help you can give as this is destined to be a cabinet army which will be either on display or on the table being used. I have 90% of tge models to make this list but I am willing to be flexible. All I should say is that this is an infantry list and I would rather avoid tanks...




  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,885
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    332 (x8)

    There are two things that hit me about this list. Firstly the leadership and secondly the lack of special weapons.

    As to the first point it is mainly to do with your command HQ, The squad is ok but it can be done with a platoon command. Drop all of this equipment and go for a normal JO with HI and mortar as well as pos a banner setup. That way you have a solid leadership base. You can then use some points to make the suicide squad with a normal platoon command.

    The lack of special weapons may hinder you in the long run. Also included in this is not great special weapons. The vets squad should really have three plasmas and not three grenade launchers, That way you can drop them in to cause max daamage. The line squads could also do with the additional firepower. The platoon commands also seem bare.

    I like the list as a whole but you have left thre useless squads (the platoon commands)
    the vet squad loses its greatest advatage. The vet squads should also be an odd number 9go for five man as the morale check will still need 3 dead).

    I'd spread the heavy bolter support squad amongst the platoon commands (though it may be worth tweaking th eweapons so that the HB ends up in a ten man squad ie. an autocan from one platoon and a missile form the other into the commands and then stick the hb's in the squads left, the third going to the heavy support platoon command.

    Special wepaons in the line squads should either be plasma or grenade launchers. with the above tweaks you should be able to afford some more spec weapons.

    hope that helps

    A

  4. #3
    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,750
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    288 (x6)

    Hmm

    I guess I didn't really regard the HQ as a suicide squad. I wanted a LD squad that could move at full speed each turn without reducing the hurt it could put on the enemy. This squad puts out 10 bolter shells each turn and can move while it does it. As soon as I think a unit will need support I can run over there. If a dangerous unit is moving in I can move away and extend the amount of time that I have to put ammunition into the on coming unit.

    In this list I have used a lot of straightforward thinking with regard to the purpose of the units I include. My first objective was to present no prize targets to my opponent. Everything in the list is redundant to some level. For example, so what if you take out my whole HQ. It cost less than 100 points and didn't give superior LD anyway. So what if you take out a Special Weapon squad, I have thee more squads with the same job to choose from. You took out my veterans, ah well I have another unit of those.

    The only units that can't be replaced are the Storm Troopers, who with their extra save I want to use for objective holding and the use of Plasma weaponry. These weapons are meant to be rare and I wanted an army which reflected some of the fiction and other things written about the guard. The glory boys have to have toys that no-one else has. The same goes for the arrogant but not-actually-more-capable general who has requisitioned some rather nice firearms for his personal staff.

    As for the special weaponry, I want to dump some into the platoon HQ squads but I am not sure that this will be conducive to their survival. I personally don't like mixing Heavy and Special weapons in line squads either.

    The Grenade Launcher is a great weapon. I don't see what the problem is with a high strength assault weapons. The Vets have a higher ballistic skill that makes these weapons more potent. To have three in a single unit means that I can rain small templates or the equivalent of a heavy bolter in fire power after moving. Then if I really want to I can assault. Though I have to admit that this is less likely.

    If you read this list but don't want to comment too much I would be grateful if you would score it out of 10 or something like that.



  5. #4
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,885
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    332 (x8)

    I use a similar method for creating my lists however I use a more points based system. Effectively they may take out my command or another unit etc but they are pretty much equal points. This means many players get confused and spread their fire too much.

    I see the idea of the command squad, however, they dont give decent leadership. They also have no ablative wounds. THis means that actually they dont fill their role very well. I'm all for cheaping out but there are some things you do need to consider. If you dont want to upgrade the officer then get some sort of iron discipline or COD or chem inhalers in the list. There is no leadership whatsoever in this army so It's pretty much an essential.

    The grenade launcher is a great wepaon but it is a far cry from a heavy bolter. The heavy bolter has three times the shots or an extra shot depending what you use. The frag hasnt got the AP and the krak doesnt have the spread. The plasma is by far the better weapon, however I understand wanting to make them rare tbh I used a maximum of two plasmas in 4 armies. What would be helpful though is to have just one plasma to beef it out a little perhaps give it to the vet sarge for a fluff reason?

    The platoon HQ squads are doing absolutely nothing at the moment so do put something in them. Special weapons are very good as you can run forward to add extra close range firepower to support line squads. Two platoon commands with maxed out flamers can cause horrendous damage to a charging squad even of marines!

    hope that helps

    A

  6. #5
    Senior Member SimulatedSnowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    668
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    56 (x2)

    While I agree that you don't want to present too many juicy targets to the enemy, the fact of the matter is, you're going to have units that are a higher priority to target than others. With the amount of infantry you have on the table, you should still be able to let your HQ provide some leadership to your army and still be very survivable, since your enemy will be taking leadership tests to target, and weighing his options on who is more dangerous.

    Sure, Ld 8 isn't that terrible, but with the way your list is set up, your shooting phases will have to go perfect and you'll have to save a lot of wounds to keep your infantry from running, and considering that a lot of basic infantry weapons have an AP of 5 or lower, your ability to hold in a shootout will be shaky.

    Other than that, your list looks awesome. You should generally be able to get your shots out first, and that always helps. Any transports coming at you should have a hard time getting through all those autocannons and missiles, and with those demo charges or even the sentinel deepstriking, you should get some serious firepower on target in disruptive fashion.
    I think you need to spend more time on your floor.

    2500 Black Templars
    7-3-3

  7. #6
    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,750
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    288 (x6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Commisarlestat View Post
    I see the idea of the command squad, however, they dont give decent leadership. They also have no ablative wounds. This means that actually they dont fill their role very well. I'm all for cheaping out but there are some things you do need to consider. If you dont want to upgrade the officer then get some sort of iron discipline or COD or chem inhalers in the list. There is no leadership whatsoever in this army so It's pretty much an essential.
    I would like to point out that Ld 8 gives a 72% chance of passing a morale test. Ld9 on the other hand gives you an 83% chance. I am not sure that I want to spend at least 30 points or more on my HQ, which will then make it more attractive as a target. Don't get me wrong I would love more leadership but these are the guard not marines. Part of me wants to actually worry a bit every time I roll a check. I am going to put a standard in the unit because its cheap and that re-roll improves the Ld impact of my HQ significantly. Cue the statisticians reading this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commisarlestat View Post
    The grenade launcher is a great wepaon but it is a far cry from a heavy bolter. The heavy bolter has three times the shots or an extra shot depending what you use.
    I guess this is my poor writing. What I meant it that three Grenade Launchers is equivalent to one Heavy Bolter with higher strength and the ability to move and fire. I think the greande launcher is really under-rated and the for a squad I want to start close and harry my opponent through the game an effective range of 30" was appealing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Commisarlestat View Post
    What would be helpful though is to have just one plasma to beef it out a little perhaps give it to the vet sarge for a fluff reason?
    I'm not sure, do you mean a plasma pistol? I don't think it would be used enough really if I sent all those points on a plasma pistol for the sergeant, I'd rather go for a bolter or something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commisarlestat View Post
    The platoon HQ squads are doing absolutely nothing at the moment so do put something in them. Special weapons are very good as you can run forward to add extra close range firepower to support line squads. Two platoon commands with maxed out flamers can cause horrendous damage to a charging squad even of marines!
    I agree with you completely. I will be making this change, the only problem is where to get the points from. I have some spare but I think I will need to drop one of the infantry units from the beta platoon to have enough to sort out 8 flamers for these guys.


    Quote Originally Posted by Commisarlestat View Post
    hope that helps
    Yes it did! Thank you very much. Rep for you! Now there was some other stuff too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatedsnowman
    Sure, Ld 8 isn't that terrible, but with the way your list is set up, your shooting phases will have to go perfect and you'll have to save a lot of wounds to keep your infantry from running, and considering that a lot of basic infantry weapons have an AP of 5 or lower, your ability to hold in a shootout will be shaky.
    I think you are right about this. I'm not sure shooting will have to go perfect. After all I have 115 lasguns so some of them are going to hit something. I have given the important weapons to people with better than average BS. I wanted some Ratlings but ran out of doctrines and I really wanted drop troops...

    Everyone expects a lot from the marines. They are nigh on fearless, the guard to my mind are meant to want to run away. 72% success on morale is enough for me and I think it is in keeping with the fluff and perhaps more importantly the army list. I feel that I have been able to find some big advantages because I have avoided pimping my units too much. The basic Ld of the guard gives a 58% of passing a morale check so the Ld difference between my Ld supported units and those on their own is 14% in terms of success rate. That's big enough for me to feel that my HQs are providing some leadership for my forces. Besides, who cares if a unit runs away, there are more than 20 scoring units in this list.

    Thanks for the comments.



  8. #7
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,885
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    332 (x8)

    The thing with the leadership is because you dont have iron discipline. Now if you had Iron discipline it wouldn't be that much of a problem because as you said LD8 isn't actually that bad. However the point is that there are loads of minuses to the leadrship tests. This means that the majority of the time you will be testing at LD 7 at most. So if you got ld 9 you would then be testing at ld8 the majority of the time.

    The myth that the guard have bad leadership is a smear campaign by those evil marines!
    The guard have fragile leadership not bad leadership. It is more fluffy to have really good leadership in your officer and the squads as normal squads. It means that if they by chance take out your leader you have to go to the next in command and the force fragments etc. If the regiment is better then the platoon commands tend to get better LD and for more elite regiments vet sarges and cod etc. That way units can act autonomously. With tthe setup you have at the moment they just have to take out a single command and your line falls into disarray even quicker, they effectively have the choice of three units to take out for the leadership which is better odds than a single defended squad. You have in effect shot your own command squad before the battle has started removing the first obsticle for the enemy. The units will then be testing on 6 as an average which is a lot lower than 7 in percentages. If you used the honorifica then it woudlnt cost as much to give the greater leadeship. This I would also give to a non move and shoot/suicide squad. That way you can give it a mortar and hide it. The enemy may want to still destroy it but it will be extremely difficult for them to do so.

    Yup I did get the meaning wrong. I see what you meant now, the thing is it does cost 8 points for this advantage and I would personally not go for the single heavy bolter in a vet squad but considering its size and tactics it seems fine to me.

    Well either change a grenade launcher to plasma or give the vet sarge a plasma pistol. I recommended the plas pistol as it fit more with the fluff of rare plasma.

    Hmmm a remnants squad is probably the most expendable, what id also like to say hear is that you dont want to give the squad four special weapons. this way you have a spare wound. You will inevitably take a casualty or two before using short ranged weapons so its best to have somewhere for this to go.

    hope that helps

    A

  9. #8
    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,750
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    288 (x6)

    I like yhe point

    I like the point about ablative wounds. After all why buy four weapons if you are only going to get to fire three?

    I worked out that the shooty squad could be one of the other HQs but then realised that this would be totally contraty to the fluff. Unless I explain that the guy actually in command is more of a figurehead while the leader that everyone respects is 'just' and capatin...

    Anyone else use plasma pistols?



+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts