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  1. #1
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    91 (x6)

    500pt Black Templars

    Castellan 91pts
    power weapon, bolt pistol, holy orb of antioch

    Sword Brethren x5: 125
    power weapon, power fist
    furious charge

    Initiate x10: 185
    x 5 bolters, x 3 BP/CCW, power fist/bp, meltagun
    Neophytes x10: 100
    x 5 shotguns, x5 bp/ccw
    I could probably break this squad in half and still do well with it, maybe even drop some neophytes to get another power fist or power weapon and melta gun in there.

    Initiate x5: 96
    x 3 bolters, power weapon/bp, flamer
    x 5 Neophytes x5: 50
    shotguns

    Its 497points. Has a good mix of anti-tank, and anti-troop I think. I know I lack long range anti-tank, and I suppose I could drop some neophytes for either a razorback or a dreadnought. I'd like to try to keep the sword brethren in there.

    In bigger games I'm trying to decide whether I should put in a unit of terminators with lighting claws, or take more Sword brethren, and just hook the terminators up to the castellan/marshal.

    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

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  3. #2
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    84 (x2)

    I've check the list, and I get 647 points... perhaps a re-check on points is in order?

    Anyway, I've been working on a 500 pt list for BTs too, recently, and I've had a problem mixing the number of units required to do well at a 500 pt game with the required CC-"umph" you need (read: men).

    For this level, I believe the Marshal is the best choice for his leadership. So your layout is perfect there, cheap and effective. Add to him a 5-man squad with furious charge, and you have a decent CC squad, but one that is a bit low on men (i.e. can be swamped by orks or Tyranids). I've found 8-men to be the minimum CC-squad for my comfort, and 6-men to be the shooty squads in my armies.

    So, with that general stance, we'll move on to your troops. The format is a bit hard to read, but it seems you have one squad of 20 and one squad of 10. The squad of 20 has mixed weapons, which always seems counter-productive to me, especially at this point level. You don't have a vow to worry about, so mixing weapons seems a waste here. I think that I would run 7 marines (1 MG or flamer, 1 PF, 5 BP/CCW)& 1 neophyte (BP/CCW) for my CC squads, and 6-man shooty squads (3 bolters, 1 LC, 1 PG & 1 neophyte w/ shotgun). Personally, I would love to see a list formed from a 1 CC squad (castellan and vet squad), and 2 shooty squads, but the points might not work. The squads could work together to form a two-pronged shooty attack, or you could just stay back and counter charge the vets.

    Admittedly, this is such a low point level that you can only do so much, but I've thought that developing basic units at this stage (i.e. "shooty" or "CC" units) works the best for me. Anyway, I know you have solid lists, and the twenty-man squad would be nigh-unstoppable, but it seems like it's a lot of eggs in one (very large and nastry) basket for my tastes. Anyway, check out your points. It's just my friendly advice.
    Last edited by Y'he Sha'is; March 21st, 2008 at 14:17.
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  4. #3
    Senior Member aetherguy881's Avatar
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    9 (x2)

    Not knowing much about BT's I'll let you know what I think I can surmise from this list.

    There is only one melta gun. I know there aren't that many tanks in 500 points, but is that really enough? You do say that it's a good mix, I think you have much more anti troop than you do anti tank.

    A rhino will definitely speed up your list some. The mobility is great. A dreadnought would become a fire magnet thus potentially allowing your sloggers to live a little longer.

    Terminators at 500 points? 'Cmon man... That's just beardy cheese. Maybe unless it's Imperial fists.

    Just my thoughts.
    Last edited by aetherguy881; March 21st, 2008 at 17:00.
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  5. #4
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    91 (x6)

    I've check the list, and I get 647 points... perhaps a re-check on points is in order?
    Forgot to add in the points for the neophytes.

    I think that I would run 7 marines (1 MG or flamer, 1 PF, 5 BP/CCW)& 1 neophyte (BP/CCW) for my CC squads, and 6-man shooty squads (3 bolters, 1 LC, 1 PG & 1 neophyte w/ shotgun).
    My concern with putting in a lascannon, provided I'm reading that LC right is that if the squad gets shot at and loses someone, then they have to move forward. Wouldn't that prevent me from shooting it the following turn?

    There is only one melta gun. I know there aren't that many tanks in 500 points, but is that really enough? You do say that it's a good mix, I think you have much more anti troop than you do anti tank.
    90% of the tanks we face in 500pts are transports, 1 meltagun + 2 powerfists is probably more then I need.

    A rhino will definitely speed up your list some. The mobility is great. A dreadnought would become a fire magnet thus potentially allowing your sloggers to live a little longer.
    Rhino is iffy, and the fact that I can get 3 Initiates for the cost of it deters me. However the dread although short on range, no one likes it's assault cannon.

    Terminators at 500 points? 'Cmon man... That's just beardy cheese. Maybe unless it's Imperial fists.
    Guess you forgot what its like to play against my grey knights @ 500pts, with 4 terminators.

    I'll post a new list later.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

  6. #5
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    As far as shooting the LC, I'll give you the experience I had at both the GT and at local RTTs, and how the rules are written, and you can decide to play it as you see fit:

    If you Righteous Zeal forward (RZ), that movement is done after your opponent's shooting phase, and is not considered movement per se (it's considered exactly like a massacre move). This allows you to shoot the weapon in the Shooting phase as long as you don't move in your movement phase. Given the way RZ has always been played in the tournaments I've gone to, it isn't much of an advantage or disadvantage for shooty squads (it basically evens out). Another way to say it, is that heavy weapons cannot be shot if you move in your movement phase. The -1 to shooting at the closest unit, however, is a large(ish) drawback.

    As far as having to move for your RZ test, it's generally agreed upon in every tournament I played in that you make your RZ move just like a massacre result (which, reading of the massacre result coupled with the consolidate result, implies moving up to the distance rolled on the d6, not necessarily the full amount). This aparent advantage is countered by the fact that you might fail your leadership test and fall back from a single casualty (i.e. you test even if you only take one casualty). And the rules-as-written support this way, anyway, but some people hold to the "must move full distance rolled" approach. As long as you play massacre that way, it's fine by me. Anyway, enough rules-lawyering.

    I think at 500 pts, a couple of large(ish) units is better than a rhino given the predeliction for RZ, and the limited amount of scoring units already.

    And those aren't termies are they, they are Sword Brethren Vets, right?


    My 500 pt list is something like:

    Marshal (JP/LC/TH/HOA)
    5 Assault Marines (2 PP/1 PF)
    5 Initiates (LC/PG/3 Bolters)
    5 Initiates (LC/PG/3 Bolters)
    It's a little heavy on the upgrades (OK, a lot heavy), but it is how I see the BTs fighting. I keep the assaults in counter-assault mode, and try to make the enemy come to me, except against tau and guard of course. Then, when the enemy gets close, I jump out and try to mess people up. 2 las/plas squads are pretty decent, and are enough fire power to cause serious hurt on just about anyone at 500 pts. No transport (except a beardy falcon) has made it to my lines. I'm about 10w/7d/7L with this list, so it's about 50% effective; not great, but not bad either. It's hard with a decent, but not great, CC army to really do well at such few points. Tau give me serious problems with low point games, as do good eldar.
    Last edited by Y'he Sha'is; March 21st, 2008 at 21:05.
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  7. #6
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    New 500pts that I tried to post last night, and then the server went down.

    And those aren't termies are they, they are Sword Brethren Vets, right?
    Yes they are vets.

    Good to know on the heavy weapons thing.

    Reclusiarch- 135
    Terminator Armour, storm bolter, holy orb of antioch

    Sword Brethren Squad x 5- 135
    lightning claws, power weapon, x3 bp/ccw
    The guy with the power weapon still has a bolt pistol right?

    Crusader Squad x5- 100
    missile launcher, meltagun, x3 bolters

    Crusader Squad x5- 131
    power fist/bp, flamer
    Neophytes x3

    Alright 1 missile launcher plus a meltagun for anti-tank. I worked quite well against tanks tonight with just a meltagun.

    The Reclusiarch can run up with the sword brethren and crusader squad to assault.

    In larger point games I am curious to know if you all out there would think it would be better to field another unit of sword brethren or a unit of terminators?
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

  8. #7
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    91 (x6)

    No comment about the above list/questions?
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

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    84 (x2)

    I was thinking someone else would answer... but here goes:

    At 750 points, you are going to need the old EC, so that sucks up some serious points. I would probably not go for either terminators or Sword Brethren, but that's me. I like the horde aspect of the BTs. I'm not comfortable until I have 2 squads of 15 BTs. I would flush out the units you have, and maybe add another footslogger/shooter if the points were available.

    But, for your question, as you already have the sword brethren who can infiltrate at times (although you didn't say what their vet skill was), I think I would run a squad of terminators with 2 AC, and maybe deep strike them when/if you feel comfortable enough. Between the infiltration and the deep strike, you should be able to put pressure on the enemy early, and keep you squads alive. Hopefully, some one else can give you another line of advice.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Listen up you primitive screwheads ... see this ... this is my BOOM-stick!" - Ash

    "I told you, it's not Pink! It's Light Red!" Donut on his new power-armor.

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