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    First Army - Need Help

    So I'm building my first army ever. I'm trying to fit it somewhere between 750 and 1500 points (a kind of large range, I know). Right now all I've decided on for sure is having at least one unit of either troops or assault marines having all swords and pistols. Beyond that, I'm really at a loss as to where I should go with it. I'm trying to make this army very flesh oriented. That is to say that I don't really want to use armor unless I have to.

    Here's what I had come up with so far, but if there's glaring faults I should fix, please let me know. Oh, also, I was planning to take the perk that allows units to swap out boltguns for pistols and a melee weapon at no charge. If that's a really bad plan I can nix that though.

    Troop 1 - Space Marines 1 (Sword and Pistol)

    Frag Grenades (x10)
    Krak Grendaes (x10)
    Total: 180 pts
    Troop 2 - Space Marines 2 (Tactical)
    Base Cost
    Frag Grenades (x10)
    Krak Grendaes (x10)
    Total: 180 pts
    HQ - Chapter Librarian
    Base Cost (Epistolary)
    Additional Power (x)
    Total: X pts
    HQ - Command Squad
    Base Cost
    Lascannon (x2)
    Apothecary
    Company Standard Bearer
    Company Champion
    Tank Hunters (x10)
    Total: 320

    Last edited by epyon_avenger; May 12th, 2008 at 20:22. Reason: Fixing for rules

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  3. #2
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    First off, welcome to LO!

    Also, you might want to edit your post (the pencil in the lower right hand corner of it, in case you don't know) to remove point costs for individual items/base marine costs. Posting those is against LO rules. Better to just post the total point costs of each unit, and list the items each unit carries, as I have below:

    Quote Originally Posted by epyon_avenger View Post
    So I'm building my first army ever. I'm trying to fit it somewhere between 750 and 1500 points (a kind of large range, I know). Right now all I've decided on for sure is having at least one unit of either troops or assault marines having all swords and pistols. Beyond that, I'm really at a loss as to where I should go with it. I'm trying to make this army very flesh oriented. That is to say that I don't really want to use armor unless I have to.
    Yeah, I'm not wild about marine armour much either, aside from dreadnoughts and transports.

    Quote Originally Posted by epyon_avenger View Post

    (THIS AND FOLLOWING QUOTES EDITED TO COMPLY WITH LO RULES)

    Troop 1 - Space Marines 1 (Sword and Pistol)

    Frag Grenades
    Krak Grendaes
    Total: 180 pts
    Troop 2 - Space Marines 2 (Tactical)

    Frag Grenades
    Krak Grendaes
    Total: 180 pts
    Well, first off, traits are very likely going bye-bye in the new codex, so I wouldn't get my heart set on them. Assault marines are Fast Attack, not tactical, so you would need to add them in addition to your troops choices.

    Also, your squads really have nothing unique about them, which suggests to me that you don't know what you want to do with them. I know, you've already said the army is in the initial phases, but as you add a unit, you should think about what that unit is going to do. Do you want them to hunt tanks/armour, or mix it up in close combat with hordes of infantry?

    A common mistake is to try to make one squad capable of doing both. Bad idea. It never works. Your first squad there, if you want it to fight hand to hand, would be well off with a Veteran Sgt. with Power Fist and bolt pistol. Also consider giving one of the squad members a plasma gun, and ditch the krak grenades. If you want them fighting hand to hand, then decide NOW that that's what they'll be doing, and give them NOTHING else to do. In total, this is only 20 points more than what you have up there now, and a MUCH more focused squad.

    For your second squad, again, you must decide what to do with it. Anti-tank? Fine. Ditch the frags, give them a Vet. Sgt. with power fist (one of the few weapons that works well in both situations), and give a squad member a meltagun. Giving both of these guys a transport is a good idea, too, whether it's a Rhino or a drop pod.

    Above all, know what each squad is going to do BEFORE the battle begins. No, you can't predict exactly how the battle will go, but you can assign a role to each squad now, and build them accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by epyon_avenger View Post
    HQ - Chapter Librarian(Epistolary)

    Additional Power?
    Total: 115 pts?
    HQ - Command Squad

    Lascannon
    Apothecary
    Company Standard Bearer
    Company Champion
    Tank Hunters
    Total: 320

    Is it possible to have a lascannon in a command squad? I'd check on that. Otherwise, not a terrible setup, though there are better anti-tank crews out there. An 8-man devastator squad with missiles is good, as is a dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon/missile launcher loadout. You also might consider land speeders. With multi-melta and heavy flamer it is fast and deadly, albeit a little fragile. Other fast units, such as assault marines, will help you to protect the footsloggers from charging/infiltrating units.
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    Thanks for those tips so far, I'll definitely use them to re-evaluate. Also, thanks for the tip on points. I wasn't aware that posting them for calculation was against the rules.

    Anywho, I can definitely make some of those changes, though I'm trying to avoid the powerfist and other such weapons. I'd like to stick to ranged weapons and then swords and shields. No chainswords, no maces/mauls/whatever. As far as the command squad goes, It says in the options up to two units may be armed with weapons from a list and lascanons are on the list. I was torn between the lascanons and some of the other long range weapons though.

    If the command squad isn't good enough as tank killers, would it be better to use one of my elite slots to build a tank killer unit and then reformat the command squad to do something else? Also, I'm not married to the librarian either if there's a better commander choice.

    I'm -really- green as far as this goes. I've played the little demo games that GW does, but I haven't -really- delved into the rules much. The lore I've got down ok, but all the numbers and conditions I'm not totally hip with yet.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by epyon_avenger View Post
    Anywho, I can definitely make some of those changes, though I'm trying to avoid the powerfist and other such weapons. I'd like to stick to ranged weapons and then swords and shields. No chainswords, no maces/mauls/whatever. As far as the command squad goes, It says in the options up to two units may be armed with weapons from a list and lascanons are on the list. I was torn between the lascanons and some of the other long range weapons though.

    If the command squad isn't good enough as tank killers, would it be better to use one of my elite slots to build a tank killer unit and then reformat the command squad to do something else? Also, I'm not married to the librarian either if there's a better commander choice.
    Well, theoretically anything can be made to work, and there is no "best" answer, but if you want the conventional wisdom I'd say your HQ choice depends on what you want it to do. Shoot or assault? Shooty = Librarian, while Assault = Chaplain. The Force Commander can do either/or, really, but pick one. Overall, I don't think any of the HQ choices are good at anti-tank/armour, which is why I hesitate to endorse the lascannon in the command squad. If you want heavy weapons, go anti-horde with plasma or heavy bolters, or maybe use a missile launcher, but ditch the lascannon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canew View Post
    Well, theoretically anything can be made to work, and there is no "best" answer, but if you want the conventional wisdom I'd say your HQ choice depends on what you want it to do. Shoot or assault? Shooty = Librarian, while Assault = Chaplain. The Force Commander can do either/or, really, but pick one. Overall, I don't think any of the HQ choices are good at anti-tank/armour, which is why I hesitate to endorse the lascannon in the command squad. If you want heavy weapons, go anti-horde with plasma or heavy bolters, or maybe use a missile launcher, but ditch the lascannon.
    So, maybe I should explain in more detail. My initial concept was to have assault troops rush and engage the enemy, then hopefully they'd keep them busy until the standard troops could catch up and either continue the fight or push through. I was thinking of having the HQ and command squad acting as support for the assault + troops and then possibly assisting elites and heavy support with destroying enemy armor and tough units. However, 90% of this strategy comes from the way I played through Dawn of War, as I said I have no tabletop experience.

    I guess for that to work I'd be assuming 2 squads of marines, as many fast attack squads as I could fit, an HQ + command squad, and probably terminators as heavy support. Would that work with conventional wisdom, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by epyon_avenger View Post
    So, maybe I should explain in more detail. My initial concept was to have assault troops rush and engage the enemy, then hopefully they'd keep them busy until the standard troops could catch up and either continue the fight or push through. I was thinking of having the HQ and command squad acting as support for the assault + troops and then possibly assisting elites and heavy support with destroying enemy armor and tough units. However, 90% of this strategy comes from the way I played through Dawn of War, as I said I have no tabletop experience.

    I guess for that to work I'd be assuming 2 squads of marines, as many fast attack squads as I could fit, an HQ + command squad, and probably terminators as heavy support. Would that work with conventional wisdom, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
    No, but often the "conventional wisdom" says that you're better off ditching the command squad altogether and attaching the HQ to something else. If you want to have assault squads rocketing across the battlefield most people would strongly recommend attaching a chaplain with jump pack and bolt pistol to one of them.

    If you want to field terminators, attach a librarian in terminator armour. He works well with them.

    Overall, your strategy is sound, but you need more anti-tank, especially once you cross the 1,000-point threshhold. Consider a dread or predator, or even some multi-melta equipped land speeders to go with your high-speed theme.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canew View Post
    No, but often the "conventional wisdom" says that you're better off ditching the command squad altogether and attaching the HQ to something else. If you want to have assault squads rocketing across the battlefield most people would strongly recommend attaching a chaplain with jump pack and bolt pistol to one of them.

    If you want to field terminators, attach a librarian in terminator armour. He works well with them.

    Overall, your strategy is sound, but you need more anti-tank, especially once you cross the 1,000-point threshhold. Consider a dread or predator, or even some multi-melta equipped land speeders to go with your high-speed theme.
    So terminators wouldn't be hefty enough to work as anti-armor? I only ask because I'm trying to keep away from armor and do mostly troops. Though, you mentioned that the traits won't be around next edition, is there any rumors as to what they'd be replaced with, if anything?

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    I don't know about the traits, but for anti-tank, running with the infentry based theme, a deverastator squad with 4 rocket launchers can wipe out even the heavyest of armoured tanks. That squad would scare a land raider, and it is still faily cheap.
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    Terminators can take way more enough of a beating to be anti-tank. Especially if you can get a good deep strike at the rear armor. Seeing as they are so hard to kill chances are you'll be able to hold out one turn to assult another tank or hit the enemy lines. The Chaplain with the assault squad is a very good way to go too. Hard hitting, very fast, great survivability. As for your strategy it should work flawlessly after a godd set of trial and errors.

    Since your strategy is to hit the lines before you get your short ranged fire support and slow assault troops in I'd say get some scouts and infiltrate them. A squad of sniper rifles with a heavy bolter and a missile launcher squad is a good way to keep an area clear early game so you can have a clear spot to push your troops through.
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