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  1. #1
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    1750 Water Warrior Purists!

    Ok... past few days I have been reading on the Way of the Water Warrior (thanks number6 for offering the link).

    I like my GK pure ussually perhaps with the addition of shooty inq lord and seraphims on larger point games. I mostly made lists of a firebase inq lord with his full retinue for the many wounds protecting the big guns, 3 dreads (2 Tllc/ml, 1 AssC/PF) and the rest GK (ussually 4 squads of 9 PAGK and a BC hero).

    But the whole LR heavy, reactive style seems something to give a go... but the list there is basically a 1000 point list and as the games in my club are ussually 1750 I went for this...

    I would particularly like feedback and comments on the list from people who have actually played the Way of the Water Warrior and any ideas and tactics I could implement.


    HQ: BC+ 4 GKT = 245

    Troops

    8 PAGK + Incenerator + Justicar = 265

    8 PAGK + Incenerator + Justicar = 265

    FA:

    7 PAGK + Justicar = 225

    Heavy

    3 x LR = 750


    Total of 1750.

    Yep... thats 29 models on the board (and 3 AV tanks) on the board at 1750 points...

    Now first offer idead and advice...

    then do the same considering the majority of players in tournament games in my area is Eldar, Tau and Necrons. Is it worth doing this list at all if I take that into consideration and how could I counteract their high strength shooting etch?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rattrap's Avatar
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    I first want to say that I admire SR's writing, and think he's on to something with his "elemental" styles of army building.

    That said, I'm not going to the first to tell you that his success has a lot more to do with the fact that he brings twin landraiders to 1k point games than any sort of real genius. (I'm sure he's a good player, but anyone who thinks most 1k armies are equipped to deal with twin landraiders is kidding themselves, it's a simple matter of choice saturation)

    In your case, the same principles apply but at a higher points level, especially against the armies you say you'll be facing regularly, massed LR's will not be the safe investment they are at 1k point games.

    Anyway, like all "Water" armies this one can certainly be effective assuming you get some decent terrain, but you're going to be weak against most "Fire" armies, and a few very common tournament armies like Falconcheese and Ork KoS.

    The only recommendation I would make is to be prepared to use one LandRaider as mobile cover for the others, most boards simply aren't going to have the terrain required to allow you to play hide and seek with three landraiders.
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    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Not a huge fan of the "Water list", myself, though that tactica is an interesting read. I did have a few thoughts on the list though:

    HQ: BC+ 4 GKT = 245

    FA: 7 PAGK + Justicar = 225

    It's unclear from your list which of these will be in the third raider, and what you plan to do with the other one (Deep Strike, footslog, etc). Were it me, I'd equip the Fast Attack squad with an Incinerator as well and put it in the third Land Raider, and give your BC and one GKT squad-member psycannons, and use them as mobile fire-support. If you're planning on Deep-Striking them instead, I'd keep them as-is, but give a teleport homer to one or all of your Grey Knight squads to give them somewhere to land. I'd also recommend extra armor, and possibly smoke launchers on the Land Raiders. Since they're the lynchpin of your list, you'll want to give them as much protection as possible. You'll have to drop some bodies from the Grey Knight squads to afford the upgrades, of course.

    [edit: Regarding the opponents you listed, I think the Necrons are going to be the ugliest, since even their most basic trooper can kill your LRs. There's really no way for you to take the teeth out of their army short of phase-out. Tau will most likely have several Railguns in their list, either on Hammerheads or on XV88s, so those will be critical for you to destroy ASAP. My guess is that'll be a tough matchup, since mobile firepower is their forte. The most common loadout for their Railheads will allow them to move up to 12" and still fire their Railgun, for instance, so controlling LOS will be difficult here. For the Eldar, it really depends what their lists are like. They have several choices that would put a serious hurting on your Land Raiders, like Vibro Cannons and Bright Lances, or Fire Dragons in a transport. Fire Prisms could be a worry, too. What it's going to come down to for Tau and Eldar is (as SR points out) 'pruning' out the dangerous elements of the enemy force, so LOS control will be critical for you. Hope it helps!]

    Good luck!

    -H
    Last edited by Hasten; May 30th, 2008 at 22:25.
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    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    I'm unsure as to whether water warrior lists work. I know that at my old club I would get slaughtered by Tau/Eldar because they could drop my Landraiders with ease.

    It may work for you sometimes, but don't expect it to be your answer.
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    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaar View Post
    It may work for you sometimes, but don't expect it to be your answer.
    Yeah, that's the rub, I guess. The 3 Land Raider list seems like a real one-trick-pony. While it has the tools to take out most enemies, there are some races that are well-equipped to put the hurt on 3 high-AV targets. And if you face them, you're doing it with half your list tied behind your back, so to speak.

    I know Silent Requiem swears by the versatility of his list style, and it certainly has the offensive tools to deal with multiple list types, but it still hinges on an opponent's low number of options to deal with multiple high-AV targets. You can achieve a similar effect with Deathwing-style Terminator lists, Godzilla lists, or swarm lists. The basic principle is to give one section of an opponent's list more targets than it can deal with, and to make other parts of his list useless because they're built to deal with different targets.

    That said, I like the idea behind an adaptive playstyle, but I don't know how much of his success depends on the 3 land raiders, and how much it depends on the playstyle.

    -H
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    Granted that necron guns can seriously zap me... and yes bright lances and railheads make the impossible AV 14 seem possible.

    But what it comes down to in the end is this... how many of those weapons will you field in a tournament knowing that ussually most opponents dont go armor heavy.

    Last tournament I was here in Greece saw a number of Mechanised Tau/Eldar but in the end they were not the victors... first place was nidzilla and second was Ork.

    I realise for example how nasty the Tau can be... and then I think in a normal competitive list I expect to phase a unit of XV88 with their Railguns and lets say 2 Hammerheads? So thats 3 Big thingies that can harm me... but if/when these are dealt with there is nothing that can touch me... I can literally keep the PAGK in the LRs (if they have survived) and win the game.

    Off course that is the hard part... but is it not easier to kill those 2 Hammerheads with the double twin linked Lascannons of each LR than fielding 3 dreads that will almost certainly die the round they are targeted?

    My usual lists as I said where the 3 dreads, 4 pagks, bc , shooty inq and then whatever left would be an assassin or perhaps less pagk and a seraphim unit.

    Although I could beat many marines, a few eldars and some orcs... in the end against Nidzilla and Tau and the Infamous Eldar armada that is very liked where I live (3 holotanks, 1 x firedragons, 1 x pathfinders, 1 x clowns and seer council) cannot be beaten. I have played games where I had good luck and games where I had bad luck and there is just no way to stop them...

    Similarly to Tau against an Eldar if I manage to kill the Falcons thats it... of course that is hard... but even making them not shoot is enough because if my LRs survive chances start to stack with me...


    PS>

    The idea was 2 pagks in LRs and the BC +termis on the third... then a unit of Deepstrikers which I would use to help out any unit that becomes stranded due to destroyed LR and is in danger. Though teleport homers are nice indeed, the points just dont cut it.

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    If the rumoured 5th edition rule change to objective based scenarios and only troops choices being able to contest them is correct, then this list would have real problems.

    If there were five objectives, you could only contest two of them leaving the other three to me.

    That is always assuming that this part of the leaked rule book is correct

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    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinodeanpostcat View Post
    If the rumoured 5th edition rule change to objective based scenarios and only troops choices being able to contest them is correct, then this list would have real problems.

    If there were five objectives, you could only contest two of them leaving the other three to me.

    That is always assuming that this part of the leaked rule book is correct
    It is correct, I saw a copy of the rulebook when I picked up my Daemons Fantasy book (I will be getting the 40k codex for them as well).

    Now you'll start seeing a lot more ISTs in lists, and a lot more inductees (I imagine we'll see more and more witch-hunter/daemon-hunter combos as well as an increase in IG/DH).

    I predict that we'll also see a lot of Daemonhunters players using their models as Inductees. That is, until we get an update of some sort (which probably won't be for awhile).
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