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This is were I am thinking about taking my guard. This is the second 40k army I am building. The first one I build I lost a lot with so I actually want to try to win some games with this one.
Close Order Dill
Heroic Senior Officer power sword, carapace, iron discipline 180Priest evisorater
PsykerVeteran power sword, standard bearer
2 Mortar teams 160
2 Hellhounds 220
2 Lemans w heavy bolter 290
10 Ratlings 110
2x Platoons w (total of 90 troops)
JO 2 x melta, iron discipline
4 squads plasma rifle, lascannon 890
I was taking them in a similar direction before 5th edition came out. One major difference with where I am going now is that before, I wouldn't bring any lascannons because of their points cost. Now with the new vehicle rules I think I need them to be effective instead of missile launchers.
I plan on using my lemans, hellhounds, and mortars to end enemy troops. The ratlings are for monsterous creatures or just harrasing troops. The infantry will take care of enemy vehicles, hopefully in the first turns from a distance. I still have enough infantry that their massed lasgun fire should be enough to finish of troops that get to close. Other than taking out enemy heavies, the infantry are there to keep friendly vehicles alive and take objectives. The 2 JOs and the HSO will help hold the line and take on any threats that manage to assault it.
I don't like the look of the lascannon models so I'm going to try to model custom ones that look more mobile. I'm thinking chop one down till It looks right on a guardsman's shoulder and have his assistant carrying the battery on his back and hook the cable between the two of them. Hopefully it will look sweet so people won't scream cheese.
I know a lot of people that will probable call 8 plasma guns cheese. I see SM army lists every day with nothing but plasma. I don't know why in a world full of nidzilla lists, three exorcists tanks and the eye of terror I can't roll with plasma rifles.
While I haven't decided on fluff yet there is a little fluff in the models I plan to bring. I am actually bring a HSO and not a JO with an honorifica. I don't see any problem with doing that, it makes perfect sense with the right fluff but considering my plasma/lascannon load I feel like throwing people a bone. I am bringing mortars. I know most people would advise against that but I like them so there they are. The Psyker is also really just filler. I never really planned on bringing him but I think he adds a little character to the board. He also prevents me from bringing drop troops but that is fine.
I know that the vanilla russ might be the most effective vehicle the guard can bring when it comes to taking out enemy troops. Strangely enough, it is also probable the most socially acceptable vehicle for the guard to field. If you think this list is cheesy, I imagine it is because of the way my platoons are equipped. If you could give me any advice maybe on other ways that you have found effective for taking down enemy vehicles and heavy support I might find it extremely helpful.
If any experienced guard players see a hole in my strategy I would also love to hear you input.
Last edited by YounGunner; July 14th, 2008 at 01:46.
Firstly, the reason you shouldn't take Plasma Rifles is because every shot you make has a 1/6 chance of instant-deathing the model carrying it. And, just to burst your bubble, rumors state that the new Guard codex which comes out sometime next year, will not include doctrines, having some radically different organisation instead. Personally, I would swap the Mortars for missle launchers. Also, this army would be decimated by a Daemon army deep striking right into assualt range. And Psykers, why? This list would melt in the face of any assualt-oriented force with good armour and toughness.
Drop the psyker; it may be cheap, but there are better uses for the points.
Also, your psyker or veteran (?) can't have a power weapon.
I personally wouldn't take the mortars unless the game is terrain-heavy or if it supports the fluff (siege regiments, for example).
I recommend extra armor for the Hellhounds and Russes.
Instead of meltas for the JO's, you may want to consider something else. Flamers are better for counter assaulting, and the other weapons are better for line-holding. Meltas are best used for deep striking anti tank.I don't think that the list is cheesy, but the high plasma/lascannon count is sort of unfluffy for non-AdMech or Inquisition themed armies. At least from what I've seen, Guard is usually thought of as non-cheesy compared to most armies. I think that the people who find the list cheesy are probably just afraid of large numbers high-strength, low AP weapons (MEQ players, maybe?).If you think this list is cheesy, I imagine it is because of the way my platoons are equipped. If you could give me any advice maybe on other ways that you have found effective for taking down enemy vehicles and heavy support I might find it extremely helpful.
Lascannon support squads are sort of fragile, but are great against vehicles. Missiles work too, but AV13-14 is harder for them to handle.
Hope this helps
There is no such thing as a plea for innocence in my court. A plea for innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
- Inquisitor Lord Fyodor Karamazov
Most armies get decimated by Daemons in assault range. Why do you think mine is so prone to this and what would you do to fix that. How would you change this list to keep "any" and every assault-oriented force with a "good" amour and toughness value from melting this list?
In a way, I appreciate you criticism but I can't give it much credit if you can't suggest what would fix all of these problems you see.
The mortars are pure fluff in a way. I like having some indirect but I don't it at the cost of some lemans.
Yeah, what is fluffy for ig though you know. Everyone wants their IG to look 20th century and that is cool but in the year 40,000 I kind of want to shoot for that look but, I want them to be able to take on the stuff they go up against at the same time. I don't think there is anything fluffy about using weapons that suck. I was a huge advocate of the missile launcher before. I didn't plan on bringing a single lascannon because of the points cost but with the new vehicle damage rules I think I'm going to need them.
I am going to crunch the numbers minus a psyker and change the meltas out for flamers and see what kind of upgrades I can afford for the tanks right after I throw you some rep. Thanks
Ok! A little different here.
HSO power sword, iron discipline, carapace 162
Vet standard bearer
3 lemans w heavy bolter, extra armor 450
Hellhound extra armor, smoke launcher 118
Sentinel heavy flamer 40
10 ratlings 110
2x platoons w JO, flamer, iron discipline 612
3 squads per platoon (total of 6) w missile launcher/plasma
2x armored fist each w 358
vet sergeant, melta and heavy bolter
2x chimera w 2 heavy bolters, extra armor, smoke
I feel like this list is a little vulnerable to heavies with its lack of serious long range at fire but I think it might be able to just over power everything but the broadsides, landraiders, traitor lemans, and things like that to still pull off victories.
I thought the lascannon might be the answer to the new tough vehicles but rumor has it they aren't enough. For the points the missile launcher is a much better MEQ killer.
Unlike fire support squads the chimera and occupants will be able to fire over/through friendly squads and have the ability to flank. I added another leman. You can't have to many of those. The sentinel is just filler. It's cheap, it looks cool, gives me a scout move, and should be valuable for close infantry support.