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Expecting lots of orks, mainly on foot but with some koptas / kans, lootas, possibly kommandos.
Space Marine Bike
Might of Heroes
Fury of the Ancients
10 Man Tactical Squad I Marius
10 Man Tactical Squad II Sentius
10 Man Tactical Squad V Solanius
4 Bike Squad VIII Laenas
5 Man Devstator Squad IX Pertacus
2 Missile Launchers
5 Man Devastator Squad X Lurco
2 Missile Launchers
Thoughts everyone? I'll dispense with writing a discourse on what I expect each unit to do unless people ask
I like it. I can't find any flaws with the list. It also maintains the marine fluff pretty well.
I LOVE the smell of promethium in the morning!
Thanks :-) unfortunately I didn't do so well... after the end of turn 4 (we reached an agreed time limit) I had all of 4 Tactical Marines from Squad Marius left, and my opponent still had some 70 odd boyz, a killa kan, Warboss on a bike, a Big Gunz Battery and some Lootas... basically I was whitewashed!
I was just swamped essentially, my opponent had 4 30 odd strong boyz mobs and I just didn't have anything to kill them with. It didn't help that my opponent set up the table mind - it was a bit too open for my liking, the Whirlwind had nowhere to sit safely so got stunned in the first turn and destroyed in the second, my devstators had no elevated positions so my lines of sight were blocked by my own troops, tactical squads were running about in the open, and so on.
To be honest though I made a lot of stupid mistakes - I didn't attempt a refused flank, which I should have - especially as I was going second and the Orkz were spread across my opponent's entire deployment zone. I forgot to play Might of Heroes on the Sergeant Laenas while charging some Kans with my bikes (twice), and as a result they got butchered pretty effectively by them - I even took off the meltaguns when I should have taken away Epistolary Antiges - I was so worried about losing my character that I overlooked the fact that he had no way of desotrying the killa kans that were hemming him in! Well, aside from the krak grenades (which didn't hit once).
I even tried to rapid fire and then charge with Captain Agemman and Squad Sentius, something which I know very well that I can't do... <sigh>. I guess sleep depravation and a crappy day at work aren't the best ways to prepare for a game of 40k! Luck was quite the factor as well, it wasn't overly bad in one way or the other bu my opponent did seem to be getting a lot of jammy rolls (especially for dangerous terrain tests, I think he made about 19/20 rolls), where as I couldn't roll a 6 to save my life.
Still it was a learning experience and due to it being a campaign game, at least I got noe good thing out of it - Squad Marius have picked up Relentless, which should come in very handy. Though I did lose a territory.
As a side note, this was only my second game of 5th (a crime I know) but I have to say I'm continually being impressed by it - there was barely any argument over rules or the interpretations thereof, and the game seemed to flow a lot more smoothly (albeit flow straight down the toilet for me).
Yes, nice list, although i would make a few changes myself. Here are some things to think about =)
1. Devvies. Your using 210 points on two squads of 5 men with 2ML's each. I would field just a single 5-man team with 4ML's, and spend only 135points instead! Thats a saving of 75points straight away, and providing you place that blast marker in the right place, you still dish out a tonne of wounds each round.
2. Purity seals. Personally, i find _no_ use for them. By the time those spent points are being used, most of them are wasted on dead men. Scrap all those seals on your troop / fast attack choices. Thats 30ish points saved.
3. Its only 1500 points, and against that many greenskins, you need more men, so scrap one of your HQ units. I'd go with keeping the epistolery and loose the master. I'd also give the libby 'vail of time' to get the most outa those hits he'll be pumping out. That should save about 100-115points.
Looking at those savings, you get (roughly!) 200+ points available for more men (i reckon its closer to 230, but i dont have my 'dex at hand!).
Thats annother devvie squad with 4 plasma cannons to dish out those armour-melting blasts you need so much in order to kill even more of the enemy!
Or the same devvie squad with 4 HB's, giving you annother 12 36inch hits to pump in to the orkskies each turn.
Or, my favourite choice, give the HQ a command squad with a serge(BP/PF), apothecary, standard bearer, company champion and use the last of the points on basic men. That way your HQ is more protected, with 1 saved wound per game turn, armour busting power fist and a few meat shields! Combine that with vail of time, and you suddenly get a command squad that re-rolls everything bar difficult terrain tests. See the fun? Those greenskins will need more than choppas to get through that lot!
Wether you like some of those ideas or not, let me know, and keep us informed on how your list performs against that hellish ork player! Oh, and you set up terrain next game
Best of luck
I'm sorry to hear that things did not go well. Forgetting about things you spend points on is bad. Purity seals are a pure fluff item for most folks, and useless on a bare board.
Positioning with heavy weapons is a big deal. Something to consider against an infantry heavy ork opponent is template weapons. Add a heavy flamer to the dread, swap out the plasma guns on the tacticals for flamers. Flamers have the added trait of being able to move and fire (yay for assault weapons) Collapsing the 2 dev squads into one would save some points, and make positioning easier. Againt this foe I'd opt for 4 missile launchers or 4 heavy bolters. Missile launchers will give you more flexibility and range, heavy bolters more consisstent kills vs infantry.
A more winning tactic vs orks is to shoot them. Orks are ws4 but bs2. They suck at range, but make up for it in hand to hand. Choppas do ugly things to that 3+ save of yours as well. As a rule, do not charge kans. Drop krak missiles and lascannons on them from as far away as you can manage.
Sticking your whirlwind behind troops is imo the best way to protect it. (Whirlwinds do not require line of sight to fire). barrages of frag missiles, flamers, and whirlwind templates should chew up massed orks pretty well. Dreadnoughts make pretty good whirlwind baby sitters too. You might want to consider dispensing with the bikes against this type of ork opponent. 120 orks vs 5 bikes are not that great odds in an assault and as I mentioned earlier going toe to toe with orks is far less desireable than shooting them. Also that many orks on a board will cut down your maneuver room considerably.
So losing the bikes, losing the psyker, merging the devastator squads, swapping the plasmaguns for flamers, and adding a heavy flamer to the dread leaves you with 420ish points by my count. That is plenty to go shopping with. That could easily buy you 2 more whirlwinds and another dreadnought. or another two tactical squads.
Anyway that's my Monday morning quarterbacking. Good luck in your next battle.
I LOVE the smell of promethium in the morning!
First off, thanks to both of you for the feedback - it's always appreciated.
As for the list, well, to be honest it was a bit experimental anyway, there was more stuff that I wanted to try out than that I thought made heaps of sense.
The bikes for one were thrown in there for flavour - they were really built with armies with more vehicles in mind, like Tau or Chaos Marines. I was just trying them out, unfortuantely they were not what I needed in this game - although in retrospect, giving them 2 flamers and tacking on an attack bikes with a heavy bolter might have made them great for picking off isolated mobs.
The Episolary was converted up to use to flank and use FotD / FotA to force LD or Pinning Tests respectively- not so much use when your opponent has Mob Rule for 90% of their troops, I just felt the need to use the model for the same reason as the bike squad really! I also wanted a Psychic hood in case my opponent brought a weirdboy, as he was a pain the behind in the last game... unfortunately he was a no show.
The Devastators were split to help me more easily gain LoS on targets - I had one squad on each flank. I agree that I was probably overspending for what I got - I'd have been better off taking 5 man Tactical squads with a single ML for the price - and I would have had more scoring units. I was really more wanting to see how the MLs performed with the new rules for blast weapons - they were alright, but I had problems getting LoS on the boyz mobs so I didn't really get to use them to their full potential.
The purity seals actually came in quite handy - a few times I used them to make sure that when my marines ran (which happened a few times!) I made sure that they were more than 6" away from my opponent (remember you can use them to remove the lowest scoring dice instead of the highest) and allow them to regroup in my turn, and they prevented the bikes from dissapearing off the table in Turn 2. For 5 pts per unit they were pretty useful!
As for my Whirlwind, it was in cover of a building, so it received a 4+ save against all glancing and penetrating hits anway - unfortunately this wasn't enough as it took the full brunt of 3 Kannons shells and 7 Lootas for 2 turns, so there were just too many shots to save them all (which seemed to be the theme of the game for me).
Kans are definitely not going to be charged in future games. They are going to be shot. Repeatedly until dead.
A few things I'm considering for next time:
- Terminators on the front line - move, shoot, assault the orks before they assault me.
- More Whirlwinds - another 1 or even 2 - preferrably out of sight of my opponent.
- Heavy Bolters! - while I don't fancy spending the points for a Dev squad with them, I might take a basic Techmarine with 4 HB Servitors as they are about the same points and don't use up a Heavy Support slot.
- Drop Pods - I really suffered manoeverability issues in this game, and in this campaign I get to reroll all of my Deep Strike rolls (thanks to my special ability) so I was stupid not to take them really. Definitely for at least my dreadnought - I might even take another one. heavy flamers all round either way, and flamers for tactical squads in drop pods.
- Land Speeders? - I have 3 Tornadoes with HB/AC and they might be just the ticked as long as I don't expose them to too much enemy fire at once.
- REFUSED FLANK!!! I really can't believe how daft I was not doing it in this game.
I also need to try and use the terrain better - with the volume of shots / attacks the orks pump out I need to keep my marines hidden from prettymuch everything from the unit they are shooting at. A 3+ save isn't much use against 30 shots! Of course having some terrain on the board that actually blocked LoS might have helped...
A couple of points though gents: Choppas don't do anything to my 3+ saves, they are just CCWs in the new Ork 'dex.
And Veil of Time only affects the Librarian, not any attached squad. The Command squad might be good for Captain Agemman though, as he suffers in a Tactical squad - I'm just desperate to keep scoring units in my list wherever possible!
Hi, i wont be writing a small essay lol,
With ur phsyker dont forget you've got smite 12" large bast and AP2 if im not mistaken,
blast markers... you want weapons with large blast markers lol, orks even though they have lots of numbers their armour is wrth jack, as mentioned by the others you want to use missle launchers, plasma cannons, and dont forget the trusty flamer,,, they can kill orkis straight out if they get into CC range.
I do have one question what chapter are you, if you've made your one from scratch use like a prefered enemy rule against orks,,, blood angels have a dude called brother captain tycho, he hates orks and gets the prefered enemy rule and he can get a nasty honour guard.
Oh termies they will fall if they get mugged by hundreds of the buggers, but it you use them to slaughter small groups they can turn a battle.
Hope that helped
Heh well I do tend towards the essays... can't help it once I get going!
Storm of The Emperor's Wrath (i.e. Smite) only uses the small blast (I wish it used the large one!), and it's a bit wasted against Orks, AP2 is great but wasted when most of the enemy have 5 or 6+ saves, and it's only strength 4, so esssentially I'd be better of with a frag missile against most ork units!
Same with the plasma cannon, S7 AP2 is a bit wasted on most of their units especially combined with the ability to kill my troops. I do agree about the blast markers though, that's why I want more Whirlwinds in my list and maybe a few more MLs, though I still think ML vs Heavy Bolter is a close run thing.
I play Ultramatinres, always have and always will, so I don't get to have any of that preferred enemy stuff I'm afraid... I'm a man of conviction lol.
I know what you mean about the Terminators as I've seen it happen, if I can play it right though, if my terminators can shoot (maybe shoot twice) then assault a boyz mob (denying them their furious charge), they should be in with a chance... I hope!
I think LC Assault Terminators in a Crusader may be the way to go, though I was loath to include them in a 1500 game they might be just the speartip I need to drive home.
I wouldn't use a whirlwind. Maybe take lots of flamers and heavy bolters as these would deny Orks armour saves and are relatively cheap