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  1. #1
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    511 (x8)

    Newbie's 1500 point Pure Daemonhunters

    Hi, I'm new to Daemonhunters, although I've played 40k for quite some time. I played them for the first time last night and did very well (although the Imperial Guard probably would have wiped me out if the scatter rolls didn't go my way).

    I'm thinking of using this as my basic 1500 point army:


    HQ

    Brother Captain w/Psycannon, holocaust

    -4 Terminator retinue w/1 psycannon, 1 thunder hammer and storm shield


    TROOP

    8 Grey Knights w/incinerator

    8 Grey Knights w/incinerator

    8 Grey Knights w/incinerator

    9 Storm Troopers w/2 melta, rhino

    9 Storm Troopers w/2 plasma, rhino


    HEAVY

    Dread w/twin lascannon, missle launcher


    I have to double check the points when I get home (I think I have about 10 left), but what do you think overall? I wanted to use enough troops, and the terminators have worked well so far. I could also deep strike the termies, if it makes sense given the situation.

    Any thoughts?

    Last edited by mynameisgrax; September 2nd, 2008 at 21:11. Reason: changed list after hearing suggestions
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  3. #2
    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    Hey Grax... looks like i get to pay you back for all the help you gave me on my Orks list...

    First of all, let me say that the list is pretty much perfect!

    Just a few things to think about...

    1) The Stormtroopers are suicidal squads with a very direct purpose. Either 1 of two things will usually happen with them: A) They reach their target, jump out of the Rhino and destroy it, then they die the next turn, or Their Rhino gets blown up before they reach their target, then they die due to enemy firepower or an assault. Because of their short life, I would drop at least 3 Stormtroopers from each squad, maybe 4. Then you can invest in some more Grey Knights for your troops squads.

    2) The list still seems a little light on Anti-Tank. Unfortunately, I don't quite know what to drop from this list to get it. The drive-by IST squads are really good, but if their ride gets blown up then you're left with 1 dread. Maybe (and I mean just maybe), you could drop 1 of the drive-by squads to get another anti-tank dread. Just something to think about if you find that tanks are giving you trouble.

    3) If you do have an extra 10 points, give Extra Armor to your Dreads. Then, just make sure to have your dread sit in cover for extra protection.

    That's about it really! Good luck!
    Currently Playing:
    Fantasy: Daemons (Angels), 40k: Black Templars

  4. #3
    I Sincerely Want a Parrot counterwavecounter's Avatar
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    You might want to take 1 or 2 of the Grey Knight squads, (or all 3), as Fast Attack choices for Deep-Striking purposes to get the most out of the Incinerators.
    "The man in the bowler hat is Mr. Average in his anonymity. I, too, wear one; I have no great desire to stand out from the masses." - Rene Magritte

  5. #4
    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    34 (x1)

    Probably not. 5th Edition is all about having enough troop choices to hold/contest objectives. By making any of those squads fast attack choices, he is put at a disadvantage by:

    1) Only have 2 or 3 objective holders.
    2) Having those units arrive later, therefore giving his opponent more time to eliminate the other troops choices and giving him no hope of winning the game.
    3) Grey knights are really expensive (in every way possible), so a bad deepstrike roll and the incinerator is useless anyways (and the unit it is with gets shot to pieces). You might as well take advantage of a shrouding roll when you're far enough away for it to be of any use.
    4) If he gets really desperate, he can always put the troops choices into the rhinos to get the incinerators there faster.
    Currently Playing:
    Fantasy: Daemons (Angels), 40k: Black Templars

  6. #5
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    135 (x4)

    Overall, looks like a great list! I think the melta-IST squads are a nice way to get some anti-armor while getting more scoring units under 5th edition rules.

    I don't know how much use you're going to get out of the incinerators in the foot-slogging squads. You're probably better off just sticking with them vanilla, since that way they retain all the advantages you're paying for (True Grit, NFW) and all the versatility that entails. Think about it this way: with a foot-slogging template weapon you're going to get at most one shot out of it before you're in assault. And that one hit isn't likely to have optimal template placement. Contrast that with several rounds of shooting at stormbolter range, coupled with the twice the number of close combat attacks that hit at higher strength. And you're actually paying to make the swap =). If you want to get some special weapons in there, you could drop all of the Incinerators, and one Grey Knight to get two psycannons in one of your troops squads to make them more of a fire-base squad. Other than that, I'd recommend keeping them vanilla unless you have some sort of delivery method like a transport.

    Regarding the ISTs, something to think about would be turning one into a dual-plasma squad. They won't necessarily be as good at taking out high-AV targets head-on, but they can do damage to every vehicle in the game save LRs and Monoliths if they hit the side armor. They'll also be better for taking out light vehicles due to the high number of shots, and they can also be used well against heavy-infantry. That said, you've only got the one TLLC/ML Dread, so might be you need the extra Meltas. Hard to say, but it's something to keep in mind for future changes.

    Cheers,

    -H
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    511 (x8)

    Good points

    I think I will change one of the ST meltas into plasmas instead. That definitely gives them a little more versatility.

    The reason I gave the grey knights incinerators is so they'll stand up better against horde. The way I figure it, if one of the units of GKs (I'll assume they've been wittled down to 6 before getting into assault range) finds itself within assault range of a 20 model unit (we'll assume orks):

    They'll first shoot 10 storm bolter shots= 7 hits = 3.5 wounds = 3 dead orks. If they drop the incinerator template on them they'll probably get at least 3 more kills (they'll most likely be able to cover 5-6, as long as the incinerator is in front). In the assault phase the normal GKs will get 8 attacks = 5 hits = 4 wounds = 3.33 kills. The incinerator GK attacks next with 2 attacks = 1.33 hits = 0.66 wounds = 0.5 kills. The Justicar will get 3 attacks = 2 hits = 1.66 wounds and kills.

    All things considered, a normal GK marine gets 1.43 ork kills the turn they assault an ork horde, and an incinerator gets about 3.5 kills, about two and half times that of a normal grey knight (assuming they were close enough to catch the orks with the template). All in all, the Grey Knights get 11-12 kills with the incinerator, and only 9-10 without them. Against orks, where getting them below 10 in number is essential, this can be the difference between victory and defeat.

    Of course, this advantage is lost when the enemy assaults you, but all in all you're just losing 0.33 kills a turn when fighting orks or their equivalents. Against hordes of chaos demons, it gets even better, because you ignore their invulnerable saves, which is all most demons get.

    To me, the amazing destructiveness of an incinerator is more than worth the cost. I'll have to try them out a bit more and see how they go.

    Thanks for all the help!


    EDIT

    After playing a bit, I'm considering changing the Terminator HQ unit into an inquisitor w/psycannon, 2 sages and 2 gun servitors w/heavy bolters, and using the leftover points to field another dread. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by mynameisgrax; September 2nd, 2008 at 21:13. Reason: I forgot one thing
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  8. #7
    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    I think I will change one of the ST meltas into plasmas instead. That definitely gives them a little more versatility.

    This will work if you add the other dread into the equation.

    The reason I gave the grey knights incinerators is so they'll stand up better against horde. The way I figure it, if one of the units of GKs (I'll assume they've been wittled down to 6 before getting into assault range) finds itself within assault range of a 20 model unit (we'll assume orks):

    Templates did get a boost under 5th, though I haven't tested out the incinerator as much as I would like to.

    They'll first shoot 10 storm bolter shots= 7 hits = 3.5 wounds = 3 dead orks. If they drop the incinerator template on them they'll probably get at least 3 more kills (they'll most likely be able to cover 5-6, as long as the incinerator is in front). In the assault phase the normal GKs will get 8 attacks = 5 hits = 4 wounds = 3.33 kills. The incinerator GK attacks next with 2 attacks = 1.33 hits = 0.66 wounds = 0.5 kills. The Justicar will get 3 attacks = 2 hits = 1.66 wounds and kills.

    All things considered, a normal GK marine gets 1.43 ork kills the turn they assault an ork horde, and an incinerator gets about 3.5 kills, about two and half times that of a normal grey knight (assuming they were close enough to catch the orks with the template). All in all, the Grey Knights get 11-12 kills with the incinerator, and only 9-10 without them. Against orks, where getting them below 10 in number is essential, this can be the difference between victory and defeat.

    While the Math hammer looks well thought out, there is something else you should consider; distance. The incinerator will get pretty much 1 shot before your squad is assaulted while a Storm Bolter will get 3 turns of shooting on average. 6 SB shots on Orks = 4 hits = 2 kills. Then in the assault phase he will get 2 attacks, 1.75 hits, 1.66 wounds, 1.5 kills. Same odds essentially, though you're paying more for the incinerator. If your opponent forces your incinerator to take an armor save, you may not get that incinerator shot.

    Now, if you're planning on giving the incinerator squad a ride, that's a different story.

    Of course, this advantage is lost when the enemy assaults you, but all in all you're just losing 0.33 kills a turn when fighting orks or their equivalents. Against hordes of chaos demons, it gets even better, because you ignore their invulnerable saves, which is all most demons get.

    It's a possibility. You'll lose true grit on that GK which means you have less assaulty power.

    To me, the amazing destructiveness of an incinerator is more than worth the cost. I'll have to try them out a bit more and see how they go.

    To each his own. Some things just work better for some people, so never rule out the Incinerator. Just don't rely on Math Hammer to give the final word.

    Thanks for all the help!


    EDIT

    After playing a bit, I'm considering changing the Terminator HQ unit into an inquisitor w/psycannon, 2 sages and 2 gun servitors w/heavy bolters, and using the leftover points to field another dread. Any thoughts?

    There are advantages and disadvantages. I think in your particular list, the dread brings help into your anti-tank department.
    Good luck!
    Currently Playing:
    Fantasy: Daemons (Angels), 40k: Black Templars

  9. #8
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    511 (x8)

    Additionally

    Thanks for the help!

    After thinking it over, I'm going to switch out the terminator squad for an inquisitor and shooty retinue. The terminators simply take up too many points in this list. I'll definitely use them in larger games, or more specialized lists, but for this list I want to use another dread.

    There's another reason I want to use incinerators: nob bikers.

    I play against quite a few ork players, and although the grey knights aren't likely to get the first assault, the large units of nob bikers tend to win too quickly, leaving them out in the open during my turn. This should give my grey knights the opportunity to counter-assault and use the incinerators on them. The incinerators wound on 4's, and allow the nobz no save at all.

    Basically, I like the incinerators because I like having the option of a flamer. It might come in useful or it might not, but I've never been in a game where I said to myself 'I wish I had 2 more storm bolter shots this turn'. On the other hand, I've had plenty of times where I wished I had a flamer.

    Anyway, I'll update the list as soon as I find some time to sit down with the codex and figure out the points. Thanks again for all the help!
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru.../mynameisgrax/

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