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My friend plays Space Marines, but he always looses. I am starting to feel bad for him (more importantly, I don't want him to quit playing), so I would appreciate some advise on what he could do.
Here is what he has to work with,
40 Space Marines w/ 4 Heavy Bolters, 1 Lascannon, 2 Missile Launchers
1 Venerable Dreadnought
5 Scouts, w/ 4 sniper rifles, and 1 Missile Launcher
1 Terminator Chaplain
5 Assault Marines w/ jump packs
He plays vanilla, usually having 2 squads of 10 Marines, and a 10 man Devastator Squad with 4 HBs. He stands there and shoots, while his dreadnoughts march forward and shoot, his landspeeders flank and shoot, He mainly has the Chaplain with the assault Marines to counter assault. He plays with a 10 man Terminator squad that deepstrikes ( I tell him it is too big), which usually does not show up until the 4th or 5th round ( huge point sink in my opinion).
I play Khorne, and my other friend he goes up against plays Orks, both very assault oriented. We mainly play annihilation missions at 2000pts.
What can he do to improve? Does he need any new units? Would being more mobile help him out? Right now he seems to be pretty static. Do the missions we play favor assault oriented armies? Is there a well known great guide for playing Vanilla Space Marines I could send him to read?
Last edited by Polygot81; September 10th, 2008 at 18:18. Reason: Forgot to add something.
he seems to have a reasonably good pool of minis to utilize, so ill see if i can give soem advice:
As i do not have the new ed codex ill be using information from the last one so take it as it is.
The chaplain with the assault squad is a great idea versus both khorne and orks. But fill their numbers out, try to get them closer to 10 (for now) or at 10 (because of the new codex) if they can still take flamers that is great but if they cant or he doesnt want to thats ok too. Realistically flamers and/or plasma pistols will help the assault unit out because p pistols will melt your khorne marines and falmers will BBQ the orks on the way into a charge, so a 10 man counter assault unit with chaplain, 2 special weapons and a vet sgt with powerfist is a go
For now i would tell your friend to forget the devastator squad and get 4 10 man tactical squads loaded up. 2 units with m. launcher, 2 with heavy bolter and throw in plasma guns (to kill khorne) or flamers (for last line against charging orks) its not a bad idea to consider mounting 2 of these units in rhinos, maybe the two units with HBs and flamers so they can get around quicker or unload and use that flamer in a units face.
as for elites, i would take 2 units of 5 terminators (if hes dead set on taking all of those expensive models instead of more assault marines lol sorry im a BA player) 2 units of 5 with assault cannons or cyclone missle launchers for more punch. its not necessary to take the termie chaplain with these guiys as theyll be primarily shooting but he can add him in if he has extra points. Also, a dreadnought with lascannons and m launcher might give you some more ranged anti tank (or khorne) fire, look into it. Similarily, lascannon and heavyflamer on the CCW is of double use as the dread can fire up an approaching ork unit.
Landspeeders are fine, make sure you put them into seperate units though so they dont get shot down in one go (but it seems both opponents play CC oriented armies) if he decides to put cyclone launchers on soem termies he can use the extra assault cannons to convert up some Landspeeder tornados, which would really help out the anti troop fire of those little buggers.
Whirlwind is a top notch choice for anti ork and can even get lucky and whipe out chaos units from time to time. Look into buying a predator and or a vindicator tank though, both are very useful and can easily make up their points with a lucky round of shooting.
So overall id suggest a list like this (to fight both orks and khorne at the same time)
2x5 termies with assault or cyclone
dread w/ lascannon and heavy flamer
4x10 tact marines-- 2 m launcher, 2 plasma gun.... 2 heavy bolter 2 flamers sgts w/ p.fists and/or combi flamers (those last two units in rhinos)
5 scouts just like he has them
10 assault marines with sgt p.fist and special weapons (with the chaplain)
2 LS tornadoes (if possible, if not these can be replaced for other things)
1 vindicator (to travel up with rhinos and lay waste to the field)
that should be in the neighborhood of 2000 points and should be able to hold its own.
Hope it helped.
Thanks for the reply hermit. Those seem to be some good ideas, and I will definitely relay your words to him.
I only hope it is enough to stop my seemingly unstoppable Khorne Berserkers and my other friend's great green tide.