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1500 Salamanders, new Codex, no Vulkan, need help fleshing-out

787 views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  Bloodthirster 
#1 ·
I'm on a mission to convert my 4th Ed Salamander force across to a 5th Ed one.

Here's the old list that I had great fun playing:

Epistollary - Storm Shield, Storm of the Emperor's Wrath & Fury of the Ancients.

5x Assault Terminators: Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields.

Tactical Squad 1 - Veteran Sergeant: Thunder Hammer. 9 Marines: Heavy Bolter & Flamer. Rhino.
Tactical Squad 2 - Veteran Sergeant: Thunder Hammer. 9 Marines: Heavy Bolter & Flamer. Rhino.
Tactical Squad 3 - Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon. 4 Marines: Meltagun.
Tactical Squad 4 - 5 Marines: Plasma Cannon.

Land Speeder: Multi-Melta.

Devastator Squad - 5 Marines: 2 Missile Launchers.
Vindicator: Dozer Blade & Smoke Launchers.
Predator Destructor: Sponson Lascannons.

46 Models


Obviously things like the Vet Sarge wargear is no longer available, and now that you can equip Captains decently, and Librarians are a little costly, I want to alter the HQ.

Trouble is, without even splashing out on new "shiny" units I'm struggling to get a force with a decent "core".

Here's what I've got so far - with around 200 points to spend [not sure if allowed to go into specifics as book not out for general sale]:

Captain - 2x Thunder Hammers & Iron Halo.

5 Terminators: Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields.
Dreadnought: Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer. Drop Pod: Locator Beacon.

Tactical Squad 1 - Power Weapon, 9 Marines, Multi-Melta & Flamer. Rhino.
Tactical Squad 2 - Power Weapon, 9 Marines, Multi-Melta & Flamer. Rhino.

Land Speeder: Multi-Melta.

Devastator Squad: Power Weapon, 4 Marines & 2 Missile Launchers. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers.
Vindicator: Siege Shield.

36 Models

General plan is that the Rhinos/Vindicators roll a flank, supported by deepstriking Terminators and Dread (more on that below). Devastators give cover-fire, and Speeder hunts Tanks (previously Tac4[held objective] and Predator added to cover-fire0. HQ and Co. for counter-charge to keep my objective clear (previously Libby and T3[helped hold obj.])

My fist reaction is "Stick more Tacticals in" - the lack of scoring units (2, to be precise) is a worry, unless I simply focus on overwhelming the enemy with the Elites, and hope the minimal-Troops can survive long enough to be claiming at the end? The fact you have to take 10 to get *any* weapons is bugging me a bit, and I don't feel 5 Bolter marines are really going to cut it. They'll add to my numbers and boost my Scoring Units, but they can't really do much else - so do you think some Scouts might be worthy of consideration? I know their stats aren't *fantastic* compared to Marines, but they should be durable if in cover. But then what set-up should they have (CC with a PF is tempting, but then are rather useless for holding own objectives)?

But I have these heavily-converted Marines with Thunder Hammers I want to use - I spent so long working on them, so I want to stick in a Vanguard squad, or a Command Squad (Apothecary + 4 Marines with Hammers) - and naturally this eats up points.

I could always free more up by shifting from a Dreadnought back to the Predator (or a Whirlwind), but I had an idea that the Dread comes in on 1st turn, then when the Rhinos have rolled up to the enemy line the Terminators have *hopefully* dropped in - accurately, thanks to the Beacon, and have a conversion idea for the Dread. But it could go if there's no other option - I also really liked the idea of an Ironclad, but it is just so pricey compared to a regular Dread that I was hesitant about including it.

Devastators have their set-up as outflankers are causing problems in my gaming circle. Hopefully the H.Flamers can defeat most out-flankers ( commonly Scouts or Snikkrot &co.), or at least weaken them to the stage that 2xML and a PW can deal with them, or do you think this level of upgrading is unecessary?


One thing though, I will NOT take Vulkan, mainly as virtually every SM player in my area is muttering about taking him, and partly as I love the image of a dual-Hammer wielding Marine. Rule of Cool wins out for me.

Many thanks to anyone that can recommend a way to usefully tie-up the last 200-or-thereabouts-points, or for ways to include some of the "shinier" units present in the book.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Well, 4 Combi-Flamers and a Heavy Flamer!

It's a tempting unit, but I dunno at the moment...

Do you think I should keep the Dread, or go back to using the cheaper Predator (and just hoping for a good scatter roll on the Termies)? Alternatively, for the same points I could take another Missile/Razorback Devastator squad. More ranged firepower and more *contesting* units to put on the objective.

At the moment I've added in 5 Scouts, to hold my own objective, and leaving me with 120-odd points. I could drop the Scouts again to get nigh-on 200 points. With those points, I want to take some sort of Retinue for my Captain, but I'm not sure what: Command Squad with Apothecary and 2x Hammers in a Razorback, if I have the points; an Assault Squad with 1 Hammer but no Jump Packs - in a Razorback; a Vanguard squad with a couple of Hammers and Power Weapon - again with no jump packs but I don't know that I could afford a transport for them; or a Sternguard squad packing a single Hammer in a Razorback (and maybe a Heavy Flamer or two). All have different pros/cons, and I really can't decide what.

An alternative would be to give the Captain Terminator Armour and 2x Lightning Claws and then take a 3rd Tactical Squad, I've got the model, but I really want to work on a 2x Thunder Hammer bloke, just for the looks.

Do you think that hoping that my 20 scoring Marines can live long enough to take and hold an objective is a good idea? I really can't see how to get more Troops that will have an effect *other* than simply babysitting an Objective with Boltguns, so I might as well invest those points in something fun/killy, that'll either blunt an enemy attack heading for my objective (thus no need for any scoring unit back-board) or distract the enemy enough that they won't shoot the Tacticals?
 
#4 ·
Here is my 1500 point salamanders army.

Captain with two thunder hammers.

Tactical Squad with meltagun, missile launcher, power fist, combi-melta in a Rhino

Tactical Squad with flamer and multi-melta in a Rhino

Tactical Squad with flamer and multi-melta in a Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad

Land Raider redeemer with multi-melta

Dreadnought with a heavy flamer

Devestator Squad with two missile launchers.

Don't know if this gives you any ideas or help.

Bloodthirster
 
#5 · (Edited)
It was your list originally, Bloodthirster, that gave me a few ideas.

I was thinking more on the Scouts, and the more I think about them the more I don't think they're suitable. It wuold be another scoring unit - which is good - but wouldn't do much else for the force, which is kind of a waste of points really. So what do you think about dropping the idea of them and loosing the Speeder for a unit of 3 Bikes (Sergeant w/ Power Weapon, 2x Meltaguns) - a fast, hitty unit but can't take casualties; or a pair of Attack Bikes - a little more survivable thanks to multi-wounds, but lack CC punch if needed (such as against Broadsides etc)? Either option provides fast-moving AT firepower, and I'm beginning to think that Bikes are a bit more reliable than Speeders - both can move 12" and fire, but the Bikes can move further overall and won't die to a sudden breeze (to get a save on the Speeder it can't shoot at all) - but once the members of the Bike/Attack Bike Squadron start going down the effectiveness is certainly lost, and the Speeders can easily nip over intervening models/terrain. What do you think on these ideas, and which unit do you think prefferable (3x Bikes, 2x Attack Bikes or 2x Speeder...or 1 speeder, Extra Terminator, better guns on 1 Razorback)?


Finally, I decided on an Assault Squad (5-men) with Thunder Hammer in a Razorback for my "Escort" for the Captain, as it's the cheapest option when wanting a CC units in a transport. This will either hang back with the Devastators to blunt incoming attacks, or will run up behind the Rhinos/Vindicator to watch the flank/rear of said formation. Hopefully the 4 "other blokes" can dish out enough Str4 attacks to stop the Sergeant/Captain getting chomped before they can swing - if I need the points I can always give the Sergeant a Power Weapon instead of a Hammer (though it means loosing a lovely model I can always the hammer dudes for when I need a bigger force).

Hmm, it's just been mentioned to me that I might not be able to take a free Razorback for the Assault Squad, only a Rhino/Pod, or at the very least the switch isn't free...I lent my Codex to a mate today (so he could see if his BT-offshoot idea would work better with the new book) so can't check - but I might have to drop to a Rhino there (which is a pitty, I prefer Razorbacks, but no real loss).
 
#7 ·
I might upgrade the Missiles to Lascannons if I have the points, but I'd never take 4 Lascannons in a 5-man unit. That just has "Target" written all over it.

Here's the current list with a 125-ish hole

Captain - 2x Thunder Hammers & Iron Halo.

5 Terminators: Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields.

Tactical Squad 1 - Power Weapon, 9 Marines, Multi-Melta & Flamer. Rhino.
Tactical Squad 2 - Power Weapon, 9 Marines, Multi-Melta & Flamer. Rhino.

Assault Squad - Thunder Hammer, 5 Marines. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers.

Devastator Squad: Power Weapon, 4 Marines & 2 Missile Launchers. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters.
Devastator Squad: Power Weapon, 4 Marines & 2 Missile Launchers. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters.
Vindicator: Siege Shield.

41 Infantry, 6 Vehicles.

Still really tempted by some sort of Fast Attack unit, but can't decide what, but I'm leaning toward some sort of bike. The idea that they can drive-by shoot like a Speeder, and still have a chance in CC (they aren't the best fighters, nor would I recommend using them as such, but when roving the back-field you almost inevitably wind up with someone trying to beat you over the head) thanks to their high toughness, should the drive-by not be as successful as first thought. They're more survivable than Speeders too, IMO, unless playing on a terrain-heavy board (where the Speeders can pop over terrain, but the Bikes might do a "George of the Jungle"). For me however points are scarce [a small bump over 100 points], and these are the options I've got (if someone wouldn't mind taking a suggestion at the best course of action):

1) 3 Bikes, Power Weapon; 2x Meltagun - ride up to Tanks and slag them, Power Weapon to take on things like Devastators/Broadsides hiding at the back of the board; but a single casualty greatly reduces this ability.

2) 3 Bikes, Power Weapon; 2x Flamer - Can still get Tanks in Assualt (18" assault move should get just about any vehicle in the game) but also be useful for burning holes through Hordes to get the Rhino Tacticals/Vindicator combo in safely or hunt down units relying on Cover-Saves. Again the Power Weapon for Heavy choices. Casualties are less important now (since only going with grenades versus vehicles and Flamers are cheaper than meltas, plus one is still fairly burny) but still reduce the effectiveness (grenades less likely to hit). And I don't know if drive-by-flaming will be as useful as drive-by-melting - since Bikes shouldn't really be in CC (and Flaming is riskier in that regard).

3) 2x Attack Bikes (armament undecided) - can fulfil either the above roles with the correct guns, but if they get caught with the wrong guns they're...not particularly useful though they are fairly resilient to shooting in comparison to the regular Bikes; but they're also not as handy in assault as they'd be lacking a Power Weapon (when roving the back-field you almost inevitably wind up with someone trying to beat you over the head, especially when doing a "drive-by"). Would leave me more points to try to upgrade weapons, but I still wouldn't have enough to take Lascannons in the Devs.

4) 2x Speeder - flexible and can ignore enemy troops and can't be locked in CC; but die to a stiff breeze.

Many thanks for any recommendations.
 
#10 ·
well since u got 2 devastator squads then u can spread ya weapons out more. i dont think razorbacks can get flamers unless its on the new codex. as for fast attack u should get a vanguard squad because they can really hurt in cc. its like having orcs with 3+ armor on the charge but faster and u can give them all power weapons if u want though its not cheap to do that.
 
#11 ·
Something I looked at when doing my army was having a couple of landspeeders with multi-meltas and heavy flamers.

Bear in mind that the flamers are strength 5 so count as defensive weapons.

I also looked at attack bikes with multimelta.

You have lots of devastators. Lots of points in their. Why not have 1 squad with 4 missiles and use the points from the razorback somewhere else.

Even take a ten man squad and combat squad it. Look at a predator for more heavy weapons?

Bloodthirster
 
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