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  1. #1
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    How to make this a fluffy Salamander list with only 1500 points?

    Here is my army list as it currently stands. I need to get it to 1500, and I would like the army to play true to the background.

    Any suggestions to finish the list off would be really appreciated - models are not an issue, I have a large collection (unpainted -_- ) already, and can buy more. The trouble is that there are just so many units to choose from in the new Codex, and not enough points to go round.

    I went with a Mechanised theme to begin with, since it seemed a good idea to put the Tacticals in Rhinos to get them to where they need to be, and thought that having the Devastators' flanks protected by a Razorback would be a good idea too.

    HQ

    Captain: Dual-Thunder Hammers, Artificer Armour & Iron Halo.
    175

    Elites

    Terminator Assault Squad - 5 Terminators: Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields.
    200

    Troops

    Tactical Squad 1 - 10 Marines - Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon. 9 Marines: Multi-Melta & Flamer. Rhino.
    220

    Tactical Squad 2 - 10 Marines - Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon. 9 Marines: Multi-Melta & Flamer. Rhino.
    220

    Scout Squad - 5 Scouts - Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & CCW. 4 Scouts: Shotguns.
    75

    Heavy Support

    Devastator Squad 1 - 5 Marines - Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & CCW. 4 Marines: 2 Multi-Meltas. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters.
    160

    Devastator Squad 2 - 5 Marines - Sergeant: Bolter. 4 Marines: 2 Plasma Cannons. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters.
    180

    Vindicator: Siege Shield.
    125

    1355

    A mighty 145 points to spend still, and the Scout Squad is optional as well. I know it's not particularly fluffy, but it was a cheap scoring unit. So I could have up to 220 points to spend, but whether loosing the Scouts is smart or not I don't know.


    Any suggestions on what to spend the last points on, or how to re-structure the list to make if more fitting to the Salamander background? Thanks for reading from a very confused Treadhead.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member sir stompalot's Avatar
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    Hows about a land raider redeemer? big tank with flamethrowers very fluffy[close ties to the adeptus mechanis and stuff like that] only problem is how to fit it in. how about losing the vindicator. thats just my thoughts.
    Lets go massacre something

    I am a sexy shoeless god of war!

  4. #3
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    I'm kinda still on the fence regarding Land Raiders. I could drop the Vindicator and take a Redeemer and a Typhoon.

    I kinda went off the Vindicator when I realised it still had AV11 sides. It's no tougher than a Rhino/Razorback, and since I intend to be pushing a flank it means the side armour is likely to be exposed. The ability for it to draw fire will be somewhat lessened if any AT weapon to the flank stands a reasonable-high chance of killing it 1-hit.

    Typhoons are striking me as a good buy now - particularly with a MM, as you can swoop 6" and unleash 3x anti-Tank shots. They strike me as vehicles used akin to the (aptly named) Typhoon fighter-bomber in WW2, swooping down to strafe Tanks with rockets. But does the 90/100 point cost mean they aren't as good as I'm thinking? They're also not fantasitcally fluffy, but I imagine if the Salamanders field any fast units, they'll want ones that can strike from a safe location so as not to risk loosing the rare tech/flight crew?

    A Redeemer has big flame cannons, and would be far tougher than the Vindicator, plus would mean I don't have to DS my Terminators. But as with all Land Raiders it's a big points sink if it goes down early - though the new Vehicle damage chart is far tougher, people are now fielding more of the heavier anti-Tank (even if less AT weapons numerically) like Lascannons and Lances to deal with the armoured behemoths.

    Dreadnoughts might be useful too. They can supplement the firepower of the Devastators, and still be handy in combat (even if Mortis-pattern - str6 will hurt any non-MEQ army quite reliably). They're fluffier than the Bikes and Speeders, but are nowhere near as quick, and wouldn't fit my Mechanised theme (I'm having a hard time dropping said theme, since it seems to make sense to mechanise most SM units these days to help get them where they need to be, or to minimise the impact of being outnumbered by justabout everyone).

    I could even take a Command Squad in Razorback to have a really "light armour" push, then take a Predator and a Dreadnought to draw fire? I'm not so sure about this either as it means my "assault" is borne in very weak vehicles that leave the opponent with no reason not to shoot at them (at least the Vindicator would draw a lot of fire...even if nto survivable), and the Dread/Pred wouldn't exactly have a high "kill" ratio.

    I suppose I could drop the Razorbacks from the Devastators, or at least one of them (keep the MM one moving forward) to free up yet more points, but this makes choosing something else to fit into the army very difficult. I guess it would be a good step as it would mean I no longer have the pretense of a Mechanised force making other elements more viable, but I do loose a considerable amount of my ranged anti-Horde firepower

    Any ideas to finish this list off would be really appreciated.

  5. #4
    Dethskullz Warboss Morden's Avatar
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    I like your list but with a few bits i would change to make it "fluffier". How about upgrading the captain to a chapter master for a few extra points you get access to a nice big 1 off demoshisher cannon i have found very cool to have and to supprize your enemy when you vapourise 20 of his men in the first turn .

    I would give your captain/chapter master a combi flamer or melta since he is just armed to the teeth with thunder hammers and It gives him a nice little kick one turn before charging in to combat.

    I've seen drop pod armies to be very popurlar these days with those short ranged weapons it will get your men there in the 1st or 2nd turn taking the fight to the enemy is good fun from what i have heard.

    If were worrying about lack of the anti-tank i'd upgrade your plasma cannons to lascannons but at no price different you can always just swtich at the last moment before the game starts.

    I agree with sir stompalot the redeemer is a awesome beast of a tank with weapons that marines are even scaried off they and the cheapest of the 3 classes its a very nice tanksport in stead of transport .

    Hope your work out what you decide fits your army best .

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    well, if you wanted to be fluffy, the least you could do is include Vulkan.

    and if you include him, then max out on as many thunder hammers, flamer weapons and melta weapons.

    landspeeders are actually a very sound choice for salamander players, but go for tornadoe with MM and HF, no the typhoon.

    redeemer + assault termies with THs and SS is good. alternatively you could use vanguard with flamers/meltas and thunder hammers.

    salamanders are generally close, rapid, fire-fights.


    cheers!

  7. #6
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    Still not keen on Vulkan. Salamanders have never had twin-linked Flamers/Meltas, so it seems a little gimmicky to me. Plus 2 Thunder Hammers wins by "Rule of Cool". Yes, the Master-Crafting hammers rule would be awesome, but I like to have my commanders represent "me", as opposed to the most sensible/effective choice. That and Special Characters irk me, even if I name him "Firey Bob" he's still Vulkan in equipment and weaknesses.

    I've got more tough choices now.

    1) Land Raider Redeemer (for Terminators) and a Land Speeder Typhoon/2 Attack Bikes.

    Adds tough Tank for Terminators so I don't have to rely on Deepstrike. Adds fast anti-Tank too. I worry the Redeemer is too short-ranged to be good for the whole while - once the Termies engage in CC I have to stop shooting at the nearby units (can't shoot into combat) and the Redeemer can't really shoot at anything *but* the closest units! And that I feel LRs are too pricey in 1500 point games - and it would mean buying another kit (see 4)

    2) Take 2x Dreadnought (1 "Mortis", 1 "Standard") and a Whirlwind.

    Dreadnoughts provide "middle of the road" fire support, Whirlwind for anti-Horde. Rhinos advance without a Spearhead though.

    3) Swap ML Devastator Squad for Command Squad in Razorback, add 2x Dreadnought (1 "Mortis", 1 "Standard") and a Whirlwind.

    Command Squad in Razorback gives me a Spearhead, and I still get the mobile Fire Support. At a cost of my ranged-firepower (though I can take an extra MM in the other Devs for a "no-go zone" hehe)

    4) Swap ML Devastator squad for Command Squad, add Land Raider Promethius and a Land Speeder Typhoon/2 Attack Bikes.

    Already have a Promethius. Adds a tough Spearhead and another Combat unit at the cost of ranged-firepower. Though Termies still Deepstrike, I've more control thanks to Promethius' re-rolls. Still not sure if LRs are worth their cost at 1500 though.

    5) Swap ML Devastator squad for Command Squad, add 2x Vindicator and a Tech Marine (rides with remaining Devs, then 'commandeers' Razorback to follow Vindicators)

    Alternative to taking Dreadnoughts. Vindicators provide more firepower, but have weaker side armour (seem to face lots of flanking shots) and risk hitting my own guys when they get close - a problem the Dreads don't have. Techie adds to repair abilities and a smidgeon of combat power, but seems almost wasteful IMO.

    6) Swap ML Devastator squad for Command Squad in Razorback, add Dreadnought (HBs, HF) in Pod, add 5 Assault Marines with Lightning Claw.

    The alternated to taking 2 Dreads. This time there's little to take the heat off the Rhinos on the board, but the Dread comes down first turn, and assaults second. The Assault Marines either support the push or guard the Devastators/Whirlwind from infantry threats. Still not sure if this is going to be better than 2 foot Dreadnoughts, but it's another option for my "attacking" army.


    So, what do you think - which of the 6 ( ) options do you think best? At the moment I'm inclined to go with number 3, just for the Spearhead + Dreads (got image in my head of the Mortis dreadnought jumping 2-footed on an Ork like one might jump on a box - perhaps with a clear sarcophagus to get a look of glee on the interred's face), whether it's most tactically sound or not is another matter.
    Last edited by Treadhead_the_mighty; October 9th, 2008 at 03:12.

  8. #7
    Member Da Boyzz's Avatar
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    To make this list as fluffy as possible i think you need the following:

    Their Chapter Master, Vulkan, as he brings them their fluffy flamers and makes them better!
    More Heavy Flamers/flamers, which may mean trying your hardest to get a land raider redeemer in there.
    Dreads with flamer/multi-melta arms.
    Give your Razorbacks twin linked heavy flamer upgrade.

    To do this, drop the scout squad, drop the captain and i think devastator squad 2 needs to be looked at, maybe fit it out to have flamers somehow?

    Lol. Flamers ftw sallies.
    [2000] Orks [2000] Tau,
    [1500]SM [2250] WHFB Chaos

  9. #8
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    Still not keen on Vulkan. Salamanders have never had twin-linked Flamers/Meltas, so it seems a little gimmicky to me. Plus 2 Thunder Hammers wins by "Rule of Cool". Yes, the Master-Crafting hammers rule would be awesome, but I like to have my commanders represent "me", as opposed to the most sensible/effective choice. That and Special Characters irk me, even if I name him "Firey Bob" he's still Vulkan in equipment and weaknesses.
    Vulkan isn't the chapter master, either. He's the 4th Company Captain who decided to go-solo. Chapter Master would be a blokey named Tu'Shan. If I could take Tu'Shan then I would (termie special character most likely).

    If only I could take HF in my Devastators, I'd have a unit with loads of them! But as I can't I'm going for MM, as they be fluffy too. But I will be dropping the squad with Missile Launchers/Plasma Cannons though, as I do need the points for the other options.


    I'm still not sold on Vindicators - the ones I keep fielding gets flanked and annihilated all too easily. Maybe this takes some of the heat off the Rhinos, but the weapons targetting the Vindicator, ironically, tend to be the *weaker* weapons, who can take advantage of the side-armour.

    I've been thinking some more, and I wonder if Dreadnoughts can fulfil the same role as the Vindicators, with a little more survivability thanks to things like Heavy Bolters no longer being able to scratch the side-armour. It's also been recommended that I take a Land Raider with the new vehicle rules. So I've got two options really, and even then I guess I could make the army so that I could play both options (taking a Promethius I already own, for example). Here's the options:

    A - Land Raider of some description & Fast anti-Tank.

    B - Dreadnoughts or (Pod)Dreadnought & Assault Marines.


    Neither option gives me more scoring units, so it's solely down to what will support the force more - having an armoured brick to lead the assault [LR for Termies/Command Squad], or taking a lighter Command Squad in Razorback to lead the push but having more units to support the line [Dreadnought(s), Terminators] as it closes, even if they're a little more vulnerable. Both variants have their ups and downs, and I just don't know which will end up being the best idea.

    At the very least I need to decide between the 2 Dreadnought options - as mentioned I already own a Promethius, and can pick up a Redeemer on the cheap too, but I need to nail the "Dreadnought-support" list to run.

    So, talking Dreadnoughts:

    A dual Twin-Autocannon variant and a close-quarters variant, or a Close Quarters -whether in a Pod or not I'm still debating - with an Assault Squad to back up the Devastators?

    The Pod will put pressure on the opponent first turn, which will hopefully draw some heat off the incoming Rhinos. However, the Podded dread will not be able to assault the turn it arrives, and facing easy Melta/Charge range with only AV12 isn't exactly a fantastic idea (I don't think the extra cos of the Ironclad would help here, a Melta or MC will still open it up). Yet having a small Assault Squad to back-up the Devastators and Whirlwind could be a smart idea, since they are very vulnerable to being charged - and a Lightning Claw should see off most out-flankers.

    I gues I wouldn't *have* to Pod the Dreadnought, but not doing so seems like a bad idea when only taking a single Dread. A lone dread would provide a small amount of cover for the Rhinos, but I don't see it drawing as much fire as a pair of Dreads bearing down in tandem would. I guess it's not an awful idea as such, giving me a piece of armour to draw fire and a counter-charge element as well as some converting. But I do feel a lone Dreadnought wouldn't make a lot of difference even if backed up by the Assault Marines.

    Speaking of which, the two Foot Dreadnoughts might be a better idea as I can be roving around the board popping shots off at any units that avoid the Melta Devastators or the guns of the Razorbacks/Whirlwind. They can likewise help out the Devastators in assault, but I could not afford to have them hang back to guard the Whirlwind as well. The advantage is that while the Assault Marines would be of no aid to the Rhinos, both Dreadnoughts can help out even if guarding the Devastators, as they can shoot-up support units. If the Devastators don't need guarding, the Dreadnoughts can push on alone to threaten yet another area of the enemy force (with more certainty of doing something than a lonely 5 Marines would).

    Which Dread combo do you think is best - 2x Foot-Dreadnoughts or Pod-Dread and Assault Marines or Foot-Dread and Assault Marines? Please can someone advise me on this choice, as I really can't decide which will help more. Maybe my Pros/Cons are off-base, or maybe I'm underestimating the surviability/distraction of a Dread in a Pod, or perhaps I'm overestimating the usefulness of 5 Assault Marines alone as counter-charge.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Treadhead_the_mighty; October 9th, 2008 at 21:24. Reason: Clarity of wording

  10. #9
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    Here's the list with the Dreads Afoot in it. What do you think?

    HQ

    Captain: Dual-Thunder Hammers , Artificer Armour & Iron Halo.
    175

    Command Squad - 5 Marines - Apothecary: Bolt Pistol, CCW & Narthecium. 4 Marines: 2 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 2 Flamers. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    165

    Elites

    Terminator Assault Squad - 5 Terminators: Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields
    200

    Dreadnought 1: 2x Twin-Linked Autocannon, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    125

    Dreadnought 2: Plasma Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Storm Bolter, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    115

    Troops

    Tactical Squad 1 - 10 Marines - Brother-Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon. 9 Marines: 7 Bolters, 1 Multi-Melta & 1 Flamer. Rhino: Storm Bolter, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    220

    Tactical Squad 2 - 10 Marines - Brother-Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon. 9 Marines: 7 Bolters, 1 Multi-Melta & 1 Flamer. Rhino: Storm Bolter, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    220

    Heavy Support

    Devastator Squad - 5 Marines - Brother-Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, CCW & Signum. 4 Marines: 2 Bolters & 2 Multi-Meltas. Razorback: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    160

    Whirlwind: Whirlwind Multiple Missile Launcher, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers.
    85

    1465 (35 left to spend)

    43 models overall.


    With the last few points, what should I spend them on?

    i) Extra Armour for both Dreads, then Meltabombs on the Devastator Sergeant.

    ii) 2 extra Multi-Meltas in the Devastators

    iii) Upgrade the Devastators' razorback to twin-Assault Cannons/Las-twinPlas


    When going with the Pod+AM list, the "Mortis" dread gets dropped for the small Assault Marine squad (5 Men, Sarge with single Lightning Claw and Combat Shield), the PC one gets the pod.


    What do you think of the army then? I know the bodycount is a bit low, but I'm hoping my Elite units and HQ can do most of the work to bail the Tac Squads out of combat while some guys remain, and have the Tacs consolidate onto objectives and the Elites keep on going.

  11. #10
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    I think you need more tacticle squads to be able to capture objectives. You will be hard pressed in any scenarios with objectives. Yes theme is nice just it's a bit risky.
    Isn't That Just Peachey

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