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Advice sought about the following list for the GW Doubles Tournament.
Rules state that each 500 points must have 1HQ and 1Troop and that the combined force cannot have more than 1 Elite, Fast Attack or Heavy Support without having one of each first.
HQ Librarian with Avenger and Might of the Ancients psychic powers
Troop 5 Scouts with Boltguns and 1 Missile Launcher
Elite 10 Sternguard with Heavy Flamer, Combi-Flamer, 3 Combi-Meltas in a Drop Pod
HQ Keyvaan Shrike
Troop 5 Scouts with Sniper Rifles and 1 Missile Launcher
Fast Attack 10 Assault Marines, Sergeant with Twin Lightning Claws
Lists are fluffy with Salamanders having lots of flames etc and the Raven Guard Assault Marines.
Any suggestions welcome.
You need more Troops, plain and simple. Two 5 man Scout squads in an overall of 1000 points? That's dangerous for any sort of objective games, and honestly I consider it min/maxing to the extreme when you take a look at your HQs and other choices. Unless you aren't playing very many objective games (which you should be, at least a few, if it's a GW tournament), then I recommend you rework your HQs to spend less points overall, and rework your other selections so that they soak up less points as well. Spend those points in either more Scouts or a Tactical Squad or two. Shrike is great and everything, but in 1000 points he's even a bit of a stretch; alongside a second HQ, thus considering him for 500 points, he's far too expensive.
Umm, "or" or is it supposed to be "and" or "and/or"?Rules state that each 500 points must have 1HQ and 1Troop and that the combined force cannot have more than 1 Elite, Fast Attack or Heavy Support without having one of each first.
Because or technically means one or the other, meanning you can only have 1 from that list in the combined force... Assuming those two lists are the two 500pts, that "or" means you can only have the elites or the fast attack there... Hope I'm not just taking things to literally here ><
Otherwise, I agree with Lost, scouts alone aren't enough assuming you are playing objectives... knowing the rules for the army is great, but it helps knowing the rules for the tournie help also xD
cut the non-troops down to 5 and get some more troops if you are playing objectives. My opinions ^^
First to clear up some poor English.
The combined 1000 points can only have a second FA/EL/HS if it has one of each, so
2 Fast Attack
1 Heavy Support is OK but
2 Fast Attack is not
Both forces must have a HQ and a Troops choice each. With the cheapest Space Marine HQ coming in at 100 points and a Scout Squad the cheapest troops choice at 75 points, that means that there are 325 points left.
I agree with the 'more troops' comments, but our thinking is that before you know it every Space Marine list will be the same. This is not really our style of play, going more for fluffy armies than power gaming.
But it would be wrong to say that objectives were not in our minds.
So, the question is how to get a fluffy Salamanders and Raven Guard without resorting to lots of tactical marines with bolters which is not fluffy for either force.
Alternative army lists from members would be appreciated so we can mull them over.
Well, I play Ultramarines, so fluff-wise I'm allowed to include all units in the codex without worrying about it
With that in mind, here is my current 500 pts list:
+ Terminator Armour
+ Storm Bolter
Dreadnaught w/ Multi-Melta
Tactical Squad w/ Boltguns
Tactical Squad w/ Boltguns
+ Heavy Bolter Sponsors
Since you need only one troop choice, you can benefit from the free ML/Flamer upgrades and select a single 10 men Tactical Squad for less, use the extra point for something else, say a lascannon upgrade, and think if you want to split them into two squads at deployment time, depending on the mission.
If you don't like the predator, a good option would be replacing it with an attack bike (with or without multi-melta, your preference) and add a razorback to your tactical squad.
Keep in mind that you don't have to pick librarian psychic powers until before the game starts, so you can tailor them depending on what opponent you're playing.
Good luck on your tournament.
You have choose the librarions psychic powers when u make the army list so unforunatly u'd have to decide before. Its on page 57 of codex Space Marines.
I was talking to the guys at my GW the other day about that, and according to them, it doesn't really matter if it's on paper or not. All you have to do is say what powers your libby has when the army is selected. That doesn't mean it has to be decided beforehand... but that also doesn't mean you get to choose after everything is on the field xD
Last edited by soltyrei; October 31st, 2008 at 22:57.
Here's my best attempt at fluffy for the both of them (mind you I'm not to up to date on raven guard fluff)
Master of the Forge w/power sword.....115 pts
10 Tactical marines w/flamer, multimelta....195
5 Scouts w/sniper rifles......75
Dreadnought w/multimelta, heavy flamer.....115
could go with conversion beam instead for +5 but I think that a Master of the Forge with power weapon/harness would be fluffier, couldn't get the points for a thunderhammer.
Also if you want more effectiveness the multimelta can be replaced by a missile launcher for free but multimelta's are more salamnders.
Captain w/twin lightning claws, jump pack....155
5 Tactical marines.......105
Sgt. w/power sword, BP, melta bombs
Razorback w/heavy bolter....40
5 Assault marines w/plasma pistol....135
Sgt. w/power fist
Predator w/autocannon.....60 points
The predator and melta bombs were because I had 65 points left over, you could get shrike instead of the captain and have 25 pts left over instead.
If you keep the captain then the predator can be replaced by either a land speeder or attack bike with multi meltas (the attack bike option leaves 10 pts spare, could replace power weapon with a fist)
I think these 2 lists will give you plenty of scoring units (3-4 depending on combat squads) and enough teeth to deal with almost anything. The good thing is you shouldn't see more than one AV14 in any list and you'll have a pretty potent balance of CC ability and shooting ability.
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
If your going to have a predator why not try for the two heavy bolters? Take the plasma pistol off the assault marines and you already have 15 points, drop the fist on the assault sergent and replace with single lightning claw, also fluffy, and you have 25 points... That makes your predator much more useful and intimidating...
Move forward and stay quiet brothers.
Check out my half finished blog here.
BTW, page 127 describe the steps of "picking" an army and state that you agreed the game points with your opponent, select a scenario and the "pick" your army. Having a pre-made list just expedite this procedure.
On tournaments with strict rules and where you have to turn in your list you should check with the organizers, since this will depend on how they're interpreting this procedure.