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Based on knowledge of the game and use of S.M and I.G I have made a 1500pts list that has been changed and doctored around 7 times by my friend and myself and 2 times by you forum-ers. After a lot of hard thought, I beg you to kick the crap out of this list and make it good:
NB: This list is currently undergoing changes as I jiggle points around in an attempt to bring advised changes to it
inq lord + ret - 259
inq lord (p.weapon, plas pist, ros, purgatus, hammer of witches
3x acolytes (carapace)
Canoness - 130
Canoness (evis, inf pist, jump pack, C of St A, BoSL)
Inq+ret+rhino - 252
inq (p.weapon, inf pist, ros, m.bombs, Div Pronouncement)
Rhino (extra armour, smoke launchers)
Inq+ret - 142
Inq (p.weapon, storm bolter, psycannon bolts)
3xVet guard (3x plasma guns)
Callidus Assassin - 120
SoB squad - 149
9xsisters (2xstorm bolters)
1x vet sister (Combi flamer-bolter, BoSL)
Storm Troopers - 70
5x troopers (2x plasma guns)
Dominion Squad - 228
5xdominions (2xmelta guns, 2xflamers)
1x vet sister (p.pist, BoSL)
Imm (multi meltas)
Retributors - 161
6x ret (4xh.bolters)
1x vet sister (storm bolter)
The plan is that the cannoness will fly between cover, trying to get close to either tanks or generals. The idea for her is to use the majority of the faith points of the army. Her role is to hunt tanks without using faith, and instant kill Generals using Hand of Emp (+2str) so she strikes at str 8 (instant kill tough 4 and below). When she kills generals with small elite retinues there is no doubt she will need help, this is what the callidus is for. The idea is that cannon shots inf pist killing one, callidus appears uses psykic flamer killing around 2 then both charge, one instant killing ingnoring armour saves one with str 3 but ignoring all saves. If the canoness kills a good tank or a general she has made her points back. The callidus should make her points back by jumping out of combat in enemies turn then re-charging in her own turn and so long as her targets (and hopefully victims) are chosen carefully.
The inq with rhino and inq lord will crawl along where the cover is heaviest, and where there is none, the rhino will provide cover. The inq lord squad has a lot of spare wounds that can go such as the familiar, penetant and 3 acolytes before it really feels the hurt of firing, however it should really only spend 3 turns out of combat, of which at most 1 turn it will not be in cover. The inq in the rhino has anti-tank capability should the cannoness be killed early in the game.
SoB squad should deal with any light infantry and for heavier infantry or light vehicles, i have an inq with an AP4 s.bolter that ignore inv. saves, 3 plasma guns with the ability to re-roll a failed hit to stop overheating. This used with the storm troops should be enough to deal with most more elite units that break through.
I have also tried to develop a interesting use for my immolator. The idea is for the dominions inside to toast any passing infantry with flamers and any passing tanks/walkers with meltas. The immolator would stand infront of my shooting squads (say 6-12") From here it would use the multi melta's to deal with tanks at a longer range that haven't yet been dealt with or walkers which use close combat that are pushing down the flanks. If none of these are here then it can be used as a heavy infantry blaster. As combat squads need to hit my lines to do damage, the immolator (sitting just above charge range) if alive (unlikely) can either flamer them then tank shock to hold them up till help arrives whilst my ranged troops retreat, or if dead (likely) provide cover for my two flamers which can deal with troops as they are forced around the sides of the disembodied vehicle and my meltas to deal with walkers that must do the same.
I hope I never play any of you having told you all my strategy, but I implore you to moan and whine at me about my strategy. I must admit it was largely created around what models I have seeing as I detest the sisters of battle models (they look like lamp-posts with melons glued to them) and so instead have used the redemptionists models from necromunda who are a more classical and superstitious looking bunch!
Last edited by Orthanus; March 25th, 2009 at 23:56. Reason: Advice given by those who have replied
You have to have 10 total models, atleast, in a SoB unit.
I wish you could make some 5 model units.
"When Blood Speaks, Shadows Answer."
Well that screwed everything up, I have changed the list accordingly after the most blaitent of schoolboy-esque errors
Last edited by Orthanus; March 22nd, 2009 at 18:46.
the dominions illegal becuase it says in the codex you MUST HAVE A TRANSPORT so you need a cheap rhino or immolator for this squad or drop the squad for more troops.
Firstly I would like to thank you as the first person to kick lumps out of my proper list, and after hard thought and due consideration I have decided that some of your points I agree with, others I do not.
Inq lord- I fail to understand your point, surely and inquisitor +ret is a 10 man combat squad? Equally having play SoB all too frequently I am terrified of combat inq with crusaders as they make a horrible mess of power armoured units (this is speaking as a ex-black templars player). Also the Combat squads in Witch Hunters are TERRIBLE! Repentia are disgustingly over priced and never make it to the enemy lines, and flagellents require a priest. They too have a horrible tendance to never reach enemy lines as they die if you ever roll a 6 and 1 wound, 4+ save at 35pts is risky at best
Cannoness- fair point, I have booked her and changed it accordingly in the list.
Inq with rhino- Hmm, I can sort of see your point about combat squads with this one seeing as it is only a 7 man squad, however its utility is as a mobile combat squad to support either Inq lord or troops that are in trouble and tank hunter if all else fails. I will look into this further, see if I can do anything, but for the time being I will leave it as is.
Inq normal- this is a shooting squad, hence the 3xplasma guns and 2xsages. And Death Cult assassins are too costly for fragility in my opinion, though feel free to disagree, people tend to leave them to the last minuite then gun them down. You could argue that that is 1 squad's shooting wasted on 40 points but not if it is a 5 man squad (which is all they are really able to take down)
SoB- The idea with this squad was to let the enemy come to me. Storm bolters are 1 point cheaper than flamers and 5 points cheaper than Melta guns. 24" range, assuming the enemy comes towards you at 6" p/t, thats around 3 turns of shooting straight line, 6xshots per S.bolter. thats 4 hit, 2 wound, 1 kill. If you walk backwards with your SoB unit that also gives you an extra turn of shooting as s.bolters are assault. Flamers you get 1 shot, you hit around 4 at best with the template if the person you play is bunching his men together thats 2 wound 1 kill: same result, 1 point more. Meltas get 1 shot, 2/3 chance of hitting, 5/6 chance of wounding 100% kill. This works out at 10/18, meaning just over 50% chance of killing a unit. Ofcourse you get the added bonus of having defence against tanks and combat walkers however I have a lot of anti tank weaponry already. From this maths I pronounce that for the task that the squad is set, the S.bolter is the best weapon for the job. I already have a flamer in the combi bolter on the vet sis and having more than one flamer does tend to limit the number of casulaties caused by later flamers.
Storm Troopers- I used this squad because a) I had run out of redemptionist models and they are £25 for 8 (thank god for eBay, providers of what I have), and b) because space marines are the army that is generally picked by anyone under the age of 15 who starts playing 40k (I'm living proof), this along with SM already being the most popular army and being flanked by swathes of power armoured tough-guys i felt the lack of any anti heavy infantry. I also disagree with your statement, my SoB squad for example (assuming I pass faith test for div guide) at >12", 1 shot is AP1. At <12" = 2 shots are AP1. With storm troopers, >12"= 1 shot is AP2, <12" 2-3 shots are AP2. There is ofcourse the arguement that with the other storm bolter shots the SoB will cause 1 more wound overall at >12" and 2 more at <12", however do remember that they cost 79 points more and use up a valuable faithpoint.
Dominions- I sort of agree with the fact that they will be more adept at a certain task, but equally they will become inflexable and useless at others. It is no use firing melta guns against a unit of light infantry deep in cover, equally it is no use firing flamers at a carnefex. I went for a 2 - 2 split because 2x meltas means that you will statistically be guarenteed to get a hit to give you a chance to penetrate vehicles, and also because any more that 2 flamers and you tend to hit nothing because you have already immolated the enemy units close. I do however agree about the power weapon, that was more a cheap item to use if/when the unit is charged, I have however decided that it would be better to use a Plasma Pistol, this gives me more shots of a higher strength which though no real replacement for a melta gun against vehicles, should help get rid of monsterous creatures and the like. (also I realised that my immolator is in the wrong place, will change that)
Immolators and Exercists: Yes I totally agree with you about exercists being awesome, however at £30 for 135pts of tank it seems a little too pricey for me. I will scour eBay for one cheap but until then an Immolator with M.meltas seems a cheap replacement. At £18 that i bought it for and just 85pts in game, though not as good it does the job and can house the Dominions. I have yet to put my immolator together, however my plan atm is to use blue tac and change weapons to flamers when appropriate to the list/I get my exercist
Retributors- Yes fair point about the book which was taken incase of mass casulaties (say 2/7 remaining) and stop those 2 legging it off the board. However seeing as I now see that one a BoSL is much more appropriate on the Cannoness, the Vet sister gave it to the cannoness as a birthday present ^_^
Once again thankyou very much for ripping my list appart. I implore you to reply again with any rebuttle and others to kick the stuffing out of the list. I will now edit my list and effect some if not all of the changes you suggested. I was intreeged (spelling?) by you comments on CC inq's being rubbish. I have only faced 2 different armies of SoB, played them a total of around 6-7 times, a CC inq was used in both lists and 5/6-7 times made back their points for my opponant. Was I just unlucky/dealt with them incorrectly?
---------- Post added at 18:52 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------
That seemed so much shorter when I typed it = P
It would appear that white russian is the only one really going for it *puts on boxing gloves*. Ok lets go:
Hmmm, if you speak from experience then I accept your point, however Grey Knights cannot go in this army list because the scum who run my club have outlawed allying armies except for inducted guard and inducted SM. If this weren't the case I would have demon-hosts and an inq with a psy-cannon so fast you wouldn't to have time to say "No! The heretics went the OTHER way!". Sister repentia need to be given a 3+ save and be 6 points cheaper before I even look at them properly, I <3 assassins but do hate deathcult because they get gunned into 41k and only allowed one temple assassin. The CC inq is because a) model looks bad-ass, b) because I need some CC in there SOMEWHERE (its a common symptom amongst ex B.temp players) and c) I added to the models bad-assness by cutting the sword away around 1cm and having him stab a dying chaos marine. Oh, can you give entire battle sister squads evis? And I doubt zealots will be allowed in my gaming-club.
I do however take you point about fire power and so will deploy him again CC troops and use the hug cover tactic thanks to my most frequent opponants fetish for destroyed cities.
for inq how much more shooty? Do you mean putting a flamer or two in there or putting some longer range weaponry in? Help me!
Inq shooty was meant to camp in cover and kick the shite out of people with 3x 24" plasma shots and 2x24" str 4 AP4 shots. Also: tanks=expensive (though £18 immolators aint bad, hmmm......). Do you think that the squad will underperform if they occupy small pieces of cover or holding an objective and killing small detachments sent to claim it?
Dunno about lots of flamers but I see what you on about and I think a heavy flamer would be good. Point taken, thanks buddy ^_^ . Yet another change you have made me make. At this rate my army is gunna lay waste to a lot!
No no no, you misunderstand me. I don't want the squad to be hunting tanks, I want them to be flying round in the safety of the immolator/camping safely behind the cover of the burned out wreckage of the immolator. I see what your saying about a pure squad being good in the right hands but I don't trust myself to be that good and also I wanted the squad as a "Shite! we are in trouble! Who is nearby who might be able to help?" Which makes it important for the squad to be helpful in most situations.
Good idea with posting conversion! Do it, put a link to it on this thread, then I will sing your praises.
Good point, noted and going to be used, it never occured to me.
I see what you are saying and it's a very good point. If you get those immolator--->exercist notes on I will cut the rhino combat inquisitor and give the rhino to the inq lord to give him transport, would that help? Or, if your conversion is applicable to rhinos I will convert my rhino and perhaps get them a chimera for the extra 2 front armour! Once again I thankyou for following up with just as fine quality comments as before. And the rest of you!!!! (yes you!) Get commenting, whinging and whining; I mean COME ON PEOPLE!!! This is a forum! I have seen more whining and moaning on MMO forums! You should all be ashamed of yourselves! I want you all telling me what an idiot I am for not doing something and then why it is better than what I have done like WR has!