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  1. #1
    Member doomygirdoom2's Avatar
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    1850 new guard list

    This is my tentative 5th Ed Guard list. Looking for advice before i start buying and building my army.


    HQ Company Command ( 130 )
    +Vox
    +Regiment Standard
    +Ordnance Officer
    +Fleet Officer

    10 Stormtroopers ( 190 )
    +Melta
    +Plasma

    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ (35)
    +Vox
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    HW Squad (105)
    +Las x3

    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ (35)
    +Vox
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    HW Squad (105)
    +Las x3

    Leman Russ Battle Tank (185)
    +Lascannon
    +H.Bolter Sponsons

    Leman Russ Battle Tank (185)
    +Lascannon
    +H.Bolter Sponsons

    2 Valkyries/Vendettas (140ea. = 280 total)
    Either Valkyrie + Rocket Pods or Vendetta (both with H.Bolter Sponsons)

    With 210 points left Im leaning on 2 Hydras and extra armour on all tanks.

    Last edited by doomygirdoom2; April 14th, 2009 at 00:01.

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  3. #2
    Member xXTrancerXx's Avatar
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    voxes are abit of a waste

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by doomygirdoom2 View Post
    This is my tentative 5th Ed Guard list. Looking for advice before i start buying and building my army.


    HQ Company Command ( 130 )
    +Vox
    +Regiment Standard
    +Ordnance Officer
    +Fleet Officer
    This unit is rather squishy. I'd think about getting them a Chimera to sit in. Gives them a nice bit of armored protection. Add a mortar to the squad and you can abuse the barrage firing rule to ignore the inaccuracy of the Ordnance Officer's blast template, by firing the mortar first.

    10 Stormtroopers ( 190 )
    +Melta
    +Plasma
    These guys are just hideously expensive. I'd think long and hard before you actually buy the models, if you haven't already. For the cost of this unit, you could have three full Guard squads with an autocannon, with a few points left over. If you decide to keep them, give them 2 of one particular weapon (so they have a defined role) and a transport to cruise them around in. I'm assuming one of the Valk/Vends. Just keep in mind that they're way too expensive to be used as suicide troops, and whatever role you use them for, they need to be supported. But honestly I'd scrap them and use the points elsewhere.


    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ (35)
    +Vox
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    Infantry (65)
    +Vox
    +H.Bolter
    HW Squad (105)
    +Las x3
    The voxes are rather redundant. They only help in receiving orders, and none of the orders make a HUGE difference. And your squads aren't really set up to make the most of the Command-level orders. I'd ditch the voxes to save points. As for the heavy bolters, I have to ask: why? Autocannons cost the same points now, and have longer range and higher strength at the cost of only one shot. Statistically speaking, I'd rather have 1 strength 7 ap 4 shot hitting per turn, than 1.5 strength 5 ap 4 shots hitting each turn. Autocannons give your squads the flexibility to target either hordes or light vehicles, and heavy bolters don't have that second capability.

    Finally, the heavy weapon squad is rather squishy. The two-wound heavy weapon team means that a single assault cannon could wipe this entire squad. And that's a significant chunk of your anti-tank firepower gone. Its cool if you manage to give them the "Bring it Down" order, but if you want to have lascannons carried by the infantry, you might be better off putting them in the Infantry Squads and just taking a support squad with either 3 autocannons or 3 heavy bolters. Personally I'd rather look towards Vendettas and Hardened Vet Squads with meltaguns in Chimeras for handling tanks. Speaking of which, where are the Hardened Vets? You don't like scoring troops that carry 3 special weapons and fire at BS 4, for only a modest price increase over regular Infantry Squads? I think they're a great investment as the new "Armored Fist Squad," to have one or more units cruising around in Chimeras with either 3 plasma or 3 melta to respond to threats, and also claim objectives.

    Leman Russ Battle Tank (185)
    +Lascannon
    +H.Bolter Sponsons

    Leman Russ Battle Tank (185)
    +Lascannon
    +H.Bolter Sponsons
    I know this is the generic weapon loadout that you get in the Russ kit, but i don't think its really worthwhile. The battlecannon is meant for taking out infantry, particularly heavy infantry like Marines. Heavy bolters are anti-infantry as well, though they don't have the ability to ignore MEQ armor saves. The lascannon is the odd man out, as its pure anti-tank. I'd always go with the hull heavy bolter instead. No sense in spending extra to give your tank a weapon that doesn't fit. Then you have a dilemma. You can keep your tank cheap by not building any sponsons on it. This also provides a heavy bolter for you to convert onto the hull mount. Or if you opt for sponsons, you go all out for the more expensive option, at least in my opinion. Go for the plasma cannon sponsons. It makes the Leman Russ absolute death-on-tracks to any sort of Marine, gives it good punch against 2+ save models, and can also make it better against hordes, as you're dropping a template on them, rather than statistically inflicting 3 heavy bolter wounds each turn of shooting. The PC sponsons look expensive, but just opting to not take the hull lascannon almost pays for the upgrade entirely. Kitting out at least one Russ in this way gives you a lot of all-round punch.

    2 Valkyries/Vendettas (140ea. = 280 total)
    Either Valkyrie + Rocket Pods or Vendetta (both with H.Bolter Sponsons)
    Valkyries are good, but I think the Guard has plenty of other options for anti-horde duties. You'll have infantry squads (preferably with autocannons), the various Russes, and anything else you might add (more on that below). I'd go with Vendettas, since they provide such nasty, concentrated anti-tank firepower. If you go that way, don't bother with door heavy bolters. The Vendetta is a pure anti-tank weapon, and heavy bolters are useless unless you maneuvered around to the rear armor anyway, in which case the three twin-linked lascannons should already do the job. If you go with a Valkyrie or two, heavy bolters in addition to rocket pods would be a sound investment. Just one Valk could unleash a ridiculous amount of anti-horde firepower--3 multilaser shots, 6 heavy bolter shots, and two large blast templates!

    With 210 points left Im leaning on 2 Hydras and extra armour on all tanks.
    [/quote]
    Hydras are pretty good tanks. Though if you take my above advice, you'll have plenty of autocannons in your line squads. The other cheap arty tank I REALLY like is the Griffon. They're dirt cheap for an indirect fire large blast, that only has a 12" minimum range. Buy two and squadron them. They'll absolutely murder any squad that doesn't have a 3+ save. Little wasted firepower. Either you're shooting at a big horde which probably needs a pair of large blasts, or you're shooting at something which gets an armor save, in which case its great to force lots of wounds. Plus Griffons get that accuracy special rule that allows you to re-roll the scatter dice. Very cheap, very reliable large blasts with strength 6. These things are too good to pass up, in my book.

    Extra armor isn't really worth it to me. Too many points just to keep the vehicle moving. If it can't shoot, its not much use to guard anymore, so why bother?

    Hardened Vets were already mentioned as a good unit to add. Another powerful one is the Psyker Battle Choir. Their leadership damaging ability is just amazing. Hit a unit with that before dropping either the Master of Ordnance/mortar fire on it, or before landing Griffon mortars on them (if you take that advice) and you're basically guaranteed to pin whatever you shoot at. Or just shoot them with a Russ with plasma sponsons and you'll probably inflict 25% losses and force them to fall back. Whichever would be more advantageous in the situation. Just give the Psykers a Chimera; they can drive around and use their psychic shooting attacks from the CHimeras top hatch, and thus your opponent has to destroy the tank before they can get rid of the psykers. And with a transport, it'll always be easy to find just the right target for them.

    Hope the advice proves useful, and have fun buying and building your army. Also, feel free to be generous with the rep for the time spent.
    "I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."
    ~Lord Yossanrion
    "Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."
    ~Quick
    "Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"
    ~Diggum's Hammer

  5. #4
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    Sokhar's got the right idea, he saved ==Me== a lot of typing

    You've got lots of anti-infantry, but tanks may give you problems. Instead of the Storm Troopers and Heavy Weapon Squad, try 2 Vets squads with meltas or just take 2 Company command squads with max meltas. Throw them in the Vendettas and drop 3-4 meltas on somebody's head. Ruins any tank's day.

    ++EDIT++

    Also, a Commissar in one of your line squads would be a good idea. When and if you decide to combine units, the Commissar gives you stubborn Ld9 and re-rolling Ld. This is an excellent tarpit.
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

  6. #5
    A 51st Century Man Marrius's Avatar
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    The Leman Russ with a lascannon is really a thing that depends on the player. I like it. Saved me a lot of trouble on a few accounts. But if it doesnt work out for you try the heavy bolters.

    I do think you have too many heavy bolters in your infantry squad. I do think you should remove two and take missile launchers. I find it to be a reliable weapon.

    Im kind of against using the Valkyries at the moment since their a new thing. I just see that the enemy will target it right away just because its something new and possibly dangerous.

  7. #6
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    A single BS3 lascannon is not worth 15 points. The LRBT is an infantry killer, if you want to pop tanks throw Pask in a Vanquisher and get some meltas (Devil Dog...*drool*).

    Agree on the heavy bolters, not so much the missile launcher. 1 shot at BS3 is not convincing, especially when the autocannon is cheaper. Wrecks light vehicles and infantry, leaving the heavy stuff for meltas, Vanquishers, Medusas, and the like.

    Don't use new stuff? Come on dude, what does that even mean? [s]Valkyries[/s] Vendettas are cheap and speedy, they can even outflank if you're worried about getting them popped. There's no better way to drop meltas on somebody's head.
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

  8. #7
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doomygirdoom2 View Post
    10 Stormtroopers ( 190 )
    +Melta
    +Plasma

    I'm Gonna agree with these guys on this one. Storm Troopers are brilliant but you can get 2 squads of Veterans with 2 Special Weapons for this cost. Giving them Carapace armour will make them as surviveable as the Storm Troopers. OK they don't have AP3 guns but you get twice as many men.
    Vets can be given more special weapons and a trusty powerfist which means you can charge and kill small squads of marines like Devestator squads or tanks (if meltas fail to kill em that is)

    Chuck these boys in your Valks and you've got a nice little anti-tank wing. But i'd deffinatly mount them in something or they'll never live to see melta range.

    Ok i know vets with Carapace, 2 meltas and a fist is expensive (135pts to be exact or 105 without the armour) But with your points you've got spare you can easily buy these boys. If you take the Carapce you can still use those awesome Kasrkin models.

  9. #8
    A 51st Century Man Marrius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ==Me== View Post
    A single BS3 lascannon is not worth 15 points. The LRBT is an infantry killer, if you want to pop tanks throw Pask in a Vanquisher and get some meltas (Devil Dog...*drool*).

    Agree on the heavy bolters, not so much the missile launcher. 1 shot at BS3 is not convincing, especially when the autocannon is cheaper. Wrecks light vehicles and infantry, leaving the heavy stuff for meltas, Vanquishers, Medusas, and the like.

    Don't use new stuff? Come on dude, what does that even mean? [s]Valkyries[/s] Vendettas are cheap and speedy, they can even outflank if you're worried about getting them popped. There's no better way to drop meltas on somebody's head.
    A devil dog is good but it requires you to get up close to use. Something I don't like doing as a guard player.

    We could argue back and forth about missile launchers and autocannons. They both run on a BS3. The problem will still affect the autocannon same as the missile launcher. I just find the missile launcher as a more reliable weapon. It still has the tank hunting and small blast for shooting at infantry. I would choose the medusa though. But you cant always rely on meltas and tanks to pop tanks alone. The missile launcher is a cheap tank killer and thats what I like about it.

    Im not saying he shouldnt use the new Valkyries and Vendettas I just think they are a bit over-hyped.

  10. #9
    Member doomygirdoom2's Avatar
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    Ok heres the new list:

    HQ Company Command ( 170 )
    +Ordnance Officer
    +Fleet Officer
    +Chimera
    +Mortar

    Chimera for extra protection and a mortar for extra accuracy for the ordinance officer.


    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ ( 30 )
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon

    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ ( 30 )
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon

    The analysis I ran on heavy bolters and autocannons had heavy bolters with a better kill percentage, but i forgot about vehicles, so autocannons will rule out.

    Vet Squad ( 130 )
    +3 Meltas
    +Grenadiers

    Vet Squad ( 130 )
    +3 Meltas
    +Grenadiers

    I already have the kasrkin models and this would be better for dropping out of the flyers and pop tanks.

    Vendetta ( 130 )
    Vendetta ( 130 )
    Vendetta ( 130 )

    Highly mobile, tank killing transports

    Leman Russ Battle Tank ( 190 )
    +Plasma Cannon

    Leman Russ Battle Tank ( 190 )
    +Plasma Cannon

    Anti MeQ, can take care of hoards, and can take care of lighter to mid tanks.

    3 Griffon Squadron ( 225 )

    Anti-hoard and pinning. That and rolling more wounds never hurts.

  11. #10
    A 51st Century Man Marrius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doomygirdoom2 View Post
    Ok heres the new list:

    HQ Company Command ( 170 )
    +Ordnance Officer
    +Fleet Officer
    +Chimera
    +Mortar

    Chimera for extra protection and a mortar for extra accuracy for the ordinance officer.


    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ ( 30 )
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon

    Infantry Platoon
    Platoon HQ ( 30 )
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon
    Infantry ( 60 )
    +Autocannon

    The analysis I ran on heavy bolters and autocannons had heavy bolters with a better kill percentage, but i forgot about vehicles, so autocannons will rule out.

    Vet Squad ( 130 )
    +3 Meltas
    +Grenadiers

    Vet Squad ( 130 )
    +3 Meltas
    +Grenadiers

    I already have the kasrkin models and this would be better for dropping out of the flyers and pop tanks.

    Vendetta ( 130 )
    Vendetta ( 130 )
    Vendetta ( 130 )

    Highly mobile, tank killing transports

    Leman Russ Battle Tank ( 190 )
    +Plasma Cannon

    Leman Russ Battle Tank ( 190 )
    +Plasma Cannon

    Anti MeQ, can take care of hoards, and can take care of lighter to mid tanks.

    3 Griffon Squadron ( 225 )

    Anti-hoard and pinning. That and rolling more wounds never hurts.
    I like what you did with the tanks and having the vendettas but I dont understand why you have so many autocannons. I would at least keep one in each platoon, have one missile launcher in each platoon, and have a heavy bolter in each platoon so you can have all your bases covered. The autocannon is a decent weapon but its a jack of all trades weapon. It is not strong in anything it does and there are other weapons that can do its job better. Heavy bolter is good at taking out infantry and the missile launcher can take out armour and with a frag round take out infantry. The HQ in the chimera is a great idea since orders range is measured from the chimera hull then which gives you a little more distance. But I dont understand what you mean by the mortar giving the ordnance officer more accuracy.

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