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So i'm really needin some help with my Ultramarines list. I'm looking to start playing in a league at a local shop but my list just seems to be lacking and i'm trying to figure out what I need to add to make it competitive, point range anywhere from 1200 - 2000 I've done Ok in my matches, I mostly play my bro's who play Orks and Chaos SM. I do ok against Orks (usually lose thou) but I got absolutely DESTROYED against Chaos (I killed a rhino, a Vindicator, and a Defiler, he hunted me down and killed every last unit in a 2000 pt game, but he was rollin with 2x vindicators, defiler, Land raider, rhinos). Anyways This is my current list. I have some units that I switch out/Dread weapons that I switch out according to who im playing (eg Chaos or orks). This is my more "ork" oriented list
Chaplain with Jump Pack - Crozius & Bolt Pistol - 115
Fast Attack -
Assault Squad with Jump Packs - 240
1xSarge with Power fist, Storm Shield
9x with CCW, bolt pistol
Dreadnought - CCW - storm bolter - Multimelta - 105
Dreadnought - Assault Cannon - CCW with heavy flamer - 125
Terminator Squad - 230
1x Sarge - Power weapon, Storm bolter
4x Termies - power fists, storm bolters - 1x Assault Cannon
Tactical Squad - 180
1x Sarge CCW & Bolt Pistol
9x - Bolters, 1x Plasma Cannon, 1x Plasma Gun
Tactical Squad - 170
1x Sarge CCW & Bolt Pistol
9x - Bolters, 1x Missile Launcher, 1x Flamer
Devastator Squad - 182
1x Sarge - CCW - Bolt Pistol
4x Heavy Weps - 2x Heavy Bolters - 2x Missile Launchers
This is 1527pts.
I have a Predator Annihillator with Lascannons all around, Captain Sicarius, more tactical squads, more Termies. Now i'm not sure what to add. I'm headin to the store soon and trying to figure out what to add. I'm thinking of adding a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer (I figure this would be great against my bro's Orks and am leaning towards this) or maybe get more mobile by adding rhinos to my tactical squads? Maybe a couple of Land Speeders? Funds are limited (eg, can't do something like scrap the devs, scrap the dreads, add 6 land speeders, drop pods for everyone, add Calgar and honor gaurd, buy everyone christmas presents and go out for milkshakes) but input is Much appreciated I'm really hoping modify my army so that is able to take on a variety of opponents and be competitive because I figure I'll see a little of everything at the league.
Thanks for the Help!
Having Rhino's for your tac squads will make them more mobile and more survivable. That would be a good start.
I think the real question is, how are you using your force? Against both Orcs and CSM, if you are too spread out, you are going to get torn apart. My thought is that with this list, as many, its pretty eacy to stretch yourself thin. Marines are a little bit tougher than a few armies, but if you dont support them they are apt to be overwhelmed. Maybe try some games using a different approach, with a dual spearhead or a refused flank.
Well for the most part i've been using my army as a shooty army. Deploy towards the back of the board, have my heavy weapons fire away taking advantage of 48" missile launcher and lascannons, until they get into range of my bolters/rapid fire. My assault squad hangs back also waiting for the enemy to move close to my squads then intercepts before they have a chance to assault me. That is usually my general tactic. So do you think I need to go totally shooty or totally assault? or is it bad to have a more balanced army?
Well, the stand back and shoot tactic can be a viable strategy. The problem with your current list is that it does not really satisfy the requirements for that. You have some long range firepower, but 3 missile launchers, 1 plasma cannon, and a multi-melta are going to do very little against and armored list. For example, when you play the chaos marine list, you are taking 4 armor popping weapons against 2 vindicators, a defiler, a land raider, and some rhinos. (and your multi-melta won't even do much the first 2 turns, and then the enemy is upon you) That means in your first two turns, you get 3 heavy weapon shots against a choice of atleast 5 pieces of armor. I'm not liking your chances against that. The ML arent all that strong for anti-armor and the plama cannon is even worse (only good for rhinos). This all adds up to by the time the enemy is in range to do serious damage to you, you have done very little to him. (and as I'm sure you've found out, vinidcators are brutal on marines)
Now, that was a long way of saying that your list is not set up for sitting back and shooting the enemy to death. Options...
1) Get a lot of long range firepower... Predator(TL Las for anti armor), Thunderfire, Whirlwind (anti-infantry with the ability to pin, Tech-marine with a conversion beamer, Land speeders to DS in to take out armor with a MM.
2) Create a fire base with a Dev squad and some more long range firepower, and then mount the rest of your troops up in rhinos/razorbacks/Land Raiders witih short to mid range firepower (both anti-infantry (flamers) and anti-tank (meltaguns)) and take the fight to the enemy with your long range firepower helping you out.
3) Land Speeders and Assault Bikes can also help out with anti-tank duties if they have multi-meltas.(just be tactical with them. if you are going to throw them at a tank unsupported, realize that that may be their only job before they get blown up.
4) Go uber-assaulty with everyone rushing across as fast as possible with enough anti-infrantry and anti-tank to get the job done.
None of these tactics are fool-proof and they all require different moves and setups. You may come up against a horde army and be swamped if your list is too assaulty or too anti-armor. Anyways, tell me what you think about all of this. I tend to ramble and lose sight of the point. Hopefully this will give you some food for thought. There are also quite a few threads on this site with tactics, questions about choices between army choices, etc...
I would add:
Las Pred (against Chaos) or a Whirlwind (for against orcs)
Razorbacks for the Tactical Squads (you'll want to keep half at home firing away anyway)
3 more Devestators - they'll allow you to combat squad
2 lascannon devs (so you can swap em with the HBs against mech heavy armies)
Also Venerable dreads are much better than normal versions - the extra BS and damage re-rolls can go a long way, and convieniently don't involve spending any more money ;-)
Awesome feedback guys. MC Bone Giant that was my "anti ork" type list, but I like what your saying with having a strong long fire support and transports to bring up my tactical squads up the middle. Ive got the Las Predator - that is one of my main long range anti armor, and also when i play chaos or non-hord I switch out the two heavy bolters in the dev squad with two lascannons. I do love the advice of putting a multimelta and flamer into a rhino/razorback - rush up the field - pop tanks or get in rapid fire range/flaming range - I think this will make my tactial squads much more effective - normally the missle/plasma cannon fires every turn and the rest slowly get picked off one by one and bolters rarely use rapid fire. And realitycheque - I love the idea of tactical squads and razorbacks - leave heavy weapon back to fire every turn and take the other half - flamer and bolters to rush up and do some damage - and the TL heavy bolter to add fire support for them OR load up multimelta and flamer + bolters in razorback - hunt some tanks down then attack infantry. And i think I will add the venerable - ive got a nice little banner ill put on top of my dread, that seems pretty venerable
So I think I might go for a pair of razorbacks - then magnetize the pieces so I can interchange the parts (go between rhino or razorback) Do you know if the razorback box comes with the parts needed to make a rhino also (not two full different models, but pieces so you can make it into a rhino if you wanted to) I know my predator did and unfortunately i threw away these pieces/super glued everything so I cant go back and magnetize now that ive learned this wonderful trick Anyways two razors/rhinos and add multimeltas - have anti-armor long range for fire support (depending on type of enemy, mech or not). Awesome advice thanks guys. Any other useful tidbits of info/strategies that would be effective for my type of army? And also what do you think of the Termies? I'm not sure about them, havent been that effective for me in the past, or maybe I havent been using them well (they function kinda like the assault squad, intercept people comin up quick/attack random targets)
Yes the razorback model is essentially, an upgraded rhino. Not gluing the top hatch/turret mount will make an immediate rhino/razorback conversion.
When purchasing, I would RARELY even buy a rhino, always opt for the razorback, for the cost, you get another pair of razorback weapons, and another turret mounting.
Also, consider including P.Fists in your tacticals. They can provide a better killing power when something hits your squad.
Last edited by Xpyre35; May 28th, 2009 at 00:30.
My only other tip at the moment would be to get out and play a lot. Try different strategies, setups, and tactics. More and more you'll get a feeling of how your army plays and you'll find what works for you. Its a learning experience and with good opponents, you can sit down afterwards and discuss the game and tactics for hours and all become better players.