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  1. #1
    Senior Member Darguth's Avatar
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    1,000pt Hybrid List

    OK, so me and my buddy are going to jump into 5th Ed. after a long hiatus so I wanted to check comments on the first list I'll test the new rules with. He will be playing Dark Angels, so the list is tailored, but he knows I'm bringing Guard so his will also be tailored for the fight. Each unit has some short commentary on what role I want the squad to fulfill:

    HQ
    (110pts) CCS: Master of Ordnance, Officer of the Fleet
    Commentary: Minimalist HQ choice, Officer is there because he will very likely be Deep Striking lots of terminators and Landspeeders, so hoping to fragment his deployment. Master of Ordnance is there to give them a bit of punch regardless of where I position them and I LOVE the flavor. These will sit in some cover or screened by the HWS and just issue orders.

    Troops
    Infantry Platoon
    (50pts) PCS: Vox, 3x GLs
    (70pts) IS: Vox, Plasma
    (65pts) IS: Plasma
    (100pts) HWS: 3x LC
    Commentary: The two IS will blob together--hence the one vox--and most likely advance on the nearest objective to my deployment to capture and control. Went with Plasmas due to the extended range when sitting on their objective and the obvious 2+ Sv threat from lots of termies and they are also good against both variants of bikes. PCS will support them with orders with the IS's screening my mobile GLs (wanted the PCS to be cheap but versatile). The HWS will deploy near my CCS and take orders, hopefully from a cover position.

    (165pts) Vets: 3x Meltas & Chimera w/ Multilaser, hull HB, pintle Stubber
    (165pts) Vets: 3x Meltas & Chimera w/ Multilaser, hull HB, pintle Stubber
    Commentary: Obviously my mobile elements. These will tank-hunt his Land Raiders if possible, or even take pot shots at any Land Speeder that is stupid and gets close. Late game they move to secure objectives. Went with HB to supplement my long range firepower as I don't expect lots of hordes or assaulting units that the HF would be better for. S5 is at least strong enough to possible lucky glance some Landspeeders.

    Fast Attack
    (120pts) Devil Dog: Melta Cannon, hull HB
    Commentary: Tank hunter, gotta deal with those Land Raiders. If no armor presents a suitable target I can attempt to punish clustered Termies from a Deep Strike with the blast as well. Again went with HB for previously stated reasons.

    Heavy Support
    (140pts) Medusa: Bastion Breachers, hull HB
    Commentary: This is the unit I'm most uncertain of, as I already have 4 units capable of dealing with armor (Vets, Devil Dog, and HWS w/ LCs if necessary) and it's just so darn fragile, I'd like to find room to replace it with a reasonable Leman Russ to present some AV14/13.

    That leaves me with 15pts to spare. The only things that really concern me with this list is possibly bike/speeder swarms, but I'm expecting a good mixture of Deathwing and Ravenwing. I don't own any Valks, or anything that would make a reasonable proxy even, so I can't really include those. I'm considering perhaps replacing the Medusa with an LR Exterminator or Hydra to deal with those threats.

    Thoughts?


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  3. #2
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    In general it looks good. I would suggest replacing the Medusa with a vanilla russ for all around support as you don't really need another focused antitank unit. That would also perfectly tie up your points.
    AKA MindSnap

  4. #3
    Senior Member Darguth's Avatar
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    Any other suggestions/comments?

  5. #4
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darguth View Post
    HQ
    (110pts) CCS: Master of Ordnance, Officer of the Fleet
    Commentary: Minimalist HQ choice, Officer is there because he will very likely be Deep Striking lots of terminators and Landspeeders, so hoping to fragment his deployment. Master of Ordnance is there to give them a bit of punch regardless of where I position them and I LOVE the flavor. These will sit in some cover or screened by the HWS and just issue orders.
    I'd avoid the MoO if possible, it's far too inaccurate and keeps your squad static. If he's bringing DW, half of his termies (rounding up) automatically come in turn 1, so the Fleet Officer isn't as useful. Don't waste that BS4, grab some special weapons.

    Troops
    Infantry Platoon
    (50pts) PCS: Vox, 3x GLs
    (70pts) IS: Vox, Plasma
    (65pts) IS: Plasma
    (100pts) HWS: 3x LC
    Commentary: The two IS will blob together--hence the one vox--and most likely advance on the nearest objective to my deployment to capture and control. Went with Plasmas due to the extended range when sitting on their objective and the obvious 2+ Sv threat from lots of termies and they are also good against both variants of bikes. PCS will support them with orders with the IS's screening my mobile GLs (wanted the PCS to be cheap but versatile). The HWS will deploy near my CCS and take orders, hopefully from a cover position.
    Yuck. A single HWS is bait and Ld7 sucks for orders. Dual plasma foot squads really aren't going to threaten anything as Land Raiders can waltz up and smash them. If you want blobs running around, add commissars, power weapons, and meltas. Otherwise stick with ACs and shoot down his speeders and Rhinos.

    (165pts) Vets: 3x Meltas & Chimera w/ Multilaser, hull HB, pintle Stubber
    (165pts) Vets: 3x Meltas & Chimera w/ Multilaser, hull HB, pintle Stubber
    Commentary: Obviously my mobile elements. These will tank-hunt his Land Raiders if possible, or even take pot shots at any Land Speeder that is stupid and gets close. Late game they move to secure objectives. Went with HB to supplement my long range firepower as I don't expect lots of hordes or assaulting units that the HF would be better for. S5 is at least strong enough to possible lucky glance some Landspeeders.
    You can't fire the HB and ML unless you sit still, so the HF wins for flexibility. You'd be surprised what that template can do if you get enough hits. Stubber is filler, you don't need it.

    Fast Attack
    (120pts) Devil Dog: Melta Cannon, hull HB
    Commentary: Tank hunter, gotta deal with those Land Raiders. If no armor presents a suitable target I can attempt to punish clustered Termies from a Deep Strike with the blast as well. Again went with HB for previously stated reasons.
    Same deal with the HB here. I'd like to see another.

    Heavy Support
    (140pts) Medusa: Bastion Breachers, hull HB
    Commentary: This is the unit I'm most uncertain of, as I already have 4 units capable of dealing with armor (Vets, Devil Dog, and HWS w/ LCs if necessary) and it's just so darn fragile, I'd like to find room to replace it with a reasonable Leman Russ to present some AV14/13.
    Another DD would fit in quite nicely, as would a Demolisher to give you some extra armor. The Medusa is great, but it really needs a partner and some Chimeras to shield it, which means a static list.

    That leaves me with 15pts to spare. The only things that really concern me with this list is possibly bike/speeder swarms, but I'm expecting a good mixture of Deathwing and Ravenwing. I don't own any Valks, or anything that would make a reasonable proxy even, so I can't really include those. I'm considering perhaps replacing the Medusa with an LR Exterminator or Hydra to deal with those threats.

    Thoughts?
    I wouldn't worry about RW/DW, it's a gimmick that keeps a gimpy army just above water (I play DA, or rather I did until the latest Codex got released, it sucks). You have enough bodies and firepower to see them off easily. Stick to cover, focus your fire on one unit at a time and force tons of saves (templates, multi-shot weapons, etc).
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

  6. #5
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    HQ: MoO, Now personally i don't like this guy. yes he's cool but he's very inacturate and will be lucky if he hits anything. He's ok against hoards but against an elite marine army like DA i wouldn't bother. As previously stated half the Death Wing Termies turn up on turn 1 with no rolls so the fleet Officer wont be much use. How many termi units are you expecting to fight?? Also you're wasting the CCS higher BS. Give these guys some grenade launchers or 1 or 2 plasma guns so they can actually do some hurt.

    TROOPS: I'd loose the HWS and chuck in another IS, they're far to expensive and squishy. You really don't have many numbers to go and grab objectives. Use the points saved from the MoO and the OotF to buy another squad. Have 2 sit back with Autocannons&Plasma guns to pop speeders and transports and the other 2 IS can then run up the board and grab objectives. As previously stated a Commissar with a powerweapon in a blob squad is more than useful. The objective grabbing squads i'd give Grenande launchers, they can move and still keep up the fire at 24"

    The Vets are fine. But yeah loose the Heavy Bolter. On the move you can only fore 1 weapon anyway. As these boys will be running forward melting things you might as well take the Flamer. Stubbers are a points filler. If you need the points for Men take them off.

    FAST & HEAVY: Now with these guys i'd loose one and take a pair of either. I'd also not really bother with Bastion Breacher shells. You're str10 Ordinance and AP1. You shouldn't have any trouble with armour. Personally i'd grab a Demolisher for terminator squishing and it's more durable than a Medusa aswell.


    -----------

    Just as an Idea
    15pts left over, 60pts saved from the Advisors, 100pts for the HWS and 20 for the Stubbers. Thats 195pts. You can grab 2 more IS's with Autocannons&Grenade launchers (65pts each) And you've still got enough to upgrade the 2 Tanks to Demolishers.
    Last edited by Lord Borak; July 9th, 2009 at 13:04.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Darguth's Avatar
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    Great suggestions all, I'll be revising my list before Saturday

  8. #7
    Senior Member Darguth's Avatar
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    OK, Saturday's game came and past so figured I'd post how I revised and how the battle went.

    Board was moderately populated with terrain. Two main features were a ruined building and an Aegis Defense Line with a gun we decided we could use as the auto-cannon Interceptor variant.

    Roll for scenario and get Seize Ground, and roll for 3+3 objectives, so the entire board basically gets covered with objectives. Both of the main features previously mentioned get objective markers, and then the other 4 basically go in the corners of the board (12" away from any edges of course)

    Roll-off and my DA opponent wins to see who will deploy firsts and chooses to go first himself. He fields a single LR Crusader with a unit of Termies accompanied by a Chaplain and Belial inside. He has 1 unit of Termies held in reserve to Deep Strike.

    I've modified my list by removing the Regimental Advisors, the HWS, the heavy stubbers, and my Medusa. These have been replaced by an AC/2xGL in the CCS, an IS with AC and GL for the HWS, PWs and a Commissar with PW in the blob squad, and a Demolisher with some heavy bolters. All of my other tanks replaced their hull HBs for HFs.

    He deploys his single LR to my far left. I deploy my Devil Dog, Demolisher, blob squad with PWs, and my PCS to the left. The lone IS and CCS deploy with my two Vets squads mounted in Chims to my right.

    I fail the roll to seize the first turn from him.

    Turn 1
    Opponent: His LR moves behind the ruined building and his Deep Striking Termies land right next to the interceptor gun. On his turn his LR fires on my closest Chimera with the TL Assault Cannon but fails to do anything productive and his Multi-melta is out of range. His Termies fire a Cyclone ML and their Interceptor gun at my lone IS squad, but as they fire through several barricades of the Aegis Defense Line I get a cover save (they weren't right up on the line, they were several inches away). Only two guardsman fall, don't even have to take a Morale test.
    Mine: My Demolisher and Devil Dog try to approach the LR Crusader, my foremost Chim races 12" towards the center of the board, hoping to attract attention as I can easily contest either of the two hotspot objectives next turn and absorb fire from smokes and 6's to hit in assault. My other Chim advances behind it to hopefully turn it's weaponry on the open termie squad. My blob squad runs forward into some difficult terrain of a destroyed chimera and sandbag terrain piece. the PCS follows them, hugging the cover. My CCS moves into some nearby ruins and for better LOS to issue commands and fire next turn. My lone IS remains stationary. My CCS, lone IS, second Chim, and Devil Dog fire on the exposed Termies (the DD couldn't get a good LOS on the LR Crusader) and manage to kill two of them. My blob squad runs to get further into cover with help from the PCS. Lastly my Demolisher just barely is in range to fire on the LR's side but the shot scatters ineffectually.
    Results: Lost 2 Guardsman but killed 2 termies (good in my book! )

    Turn 2
    Opponents: LR wheels about and comes storming at my blob squad now in cover (and controlling an objective). The termies in the open advance on my speeding Chim, now in range of assault. The LR disgorges it's occupants who charge through the cover (got the dern 6 he needed to reach me on the difficult terrain test) and ignore my cover benefits with their launchers off the LR. The other squad of termies engage the speeding Chim after their ML does nothing. His HQ termies kill all but 3 models of my blob squad before I can strike back (re-rolls to hit with Chaplain, re-rolls to wound with lightning claws, +1A for charge and +1A from banner hurts!) so I of course retain my PW kitted sarges and Commissar. They strike back and deal 3 wounds, one of which gets allocated to Belial, the Chaplain and a rank-and-file guy and Belial fails his Invuln. save to suffer a single wound. His Thunderhammer wielding SMs kill off the rest of my platoon and he consolidates in the cover. His other termie squad only manages to Crew Stun my Chimera with their thunderhammers.
    Mine: My vets disembark from the stunned chimera, about to release a hail of rapid fire on the assaulting termies. My second Chim starts to make it towards the right side of the board, hoping to kill a few termies and then go take and hold a distant objective. My PCS starts backing away from the termies in cover, as does my Demolisher to try and avoid a bad scatter. My Devil Dog wheels on the spot, in range to blast the exposed HQ termies with both the cannon and HF. My PCS issues FRFSRF on itself and blasts at the HQ termies. All 3 grenade templates land and score 15 hits, plus several lasgun hits, but all wounds are saved . The CCS issues BID to the disembarked Vet Squad who kill off two termies (yay for meltas) and then BID on the lone IS which fails to kill the remaining 1 termie. The CCS and other Chim fire on the remaining Termie and finally a meltagun shot takes him out. The Melta Cannon and Heavy Flamer deal two wounds, 1 to the chaplain and killing a rank-and-file Lightning Claw termie in the HQ squad but my Demolisher again scatters ineffectually and the HB does nothing either.
    Results: Loss of my entire blob squad, stunned Chimera, killed 4 terminators and wounded Belial and the Chaplain.

    Turn 3
    Opponent's: HQ termies move out of cover (abandoning the objective for now, realizing he has to obliterate my army in order to win at this point) towards my Demolisher and LR moves towards the center of my line gunning for my Devil Dog. The HQ Terms fire ineffectually on the AV14 tank and the LR Crusader's multimelta misses again but some good rolls with the TL Assault Cannon produce an Explodes! result on my poor Devil Dog. The flying debris harms nothing. His thunderhammers manage to immobilize and stun my Demolisher.
    Mine: The PCS continues to move away from the HQ termies, hoping to drop more GL blasts on them from a safe distance. My vet squad re-embarks on their Chim, it moves 6" towards the LR and wheels about to try and get the hatch within 6" of LR hull. My other Chim races full steam towards the far right-corner of the board to grab an objective. My CCS and remaining IS squad remain stationary hoping to fire their ACs across the board at his termies. Between the PCS, CCS, and IS I manage to wound Belial again (he now has 2x Thunderhammer/SS, 2x Lightning Claw, Chaplain (1w), and Belial (2w) IIRC). The meltas of my vet squad destroy the multimelta on the LR.
    Result: Loss of the Devil Dog and immobilized/stunned Demolisher. Wounded Belial and destroyed the multimelta. No one currently controls any objectives.

    Turn 4
    Opponent's: His termies remain trying to finish off the Demolisher which is their most immediate threat and the LR moves to the rear of my Chimera raining melta fire upon it. The LR's assault cannon manages to stun my Chimera but that's it. His termies hit slightly easier now that I haven't moved and get two weapon destroyed results, turning my immobilized and weaponless Demolisher into a wreck! They consolidate towards my fleeing PCS with Belial and the Chaplain disengaging (wasn't really sure why).
    Mine: The PCS moves away from the disengaged termies once again. The CCS and remains stationary to turn their ACs across the board again and the lone IS sensing it's time to grab objectives picks up their AC and moves towards the Interceptor gun objective. The able Chimera finally makes it to the far corner to capture the objective there, no one will be able to contest it even if the game goes to Turn 7. My vets disembark from the stunned Chimera to burn the LR at point-blank range. The meltas manage to Explodes! the LR Crusader and it's 5" blast hits all of them, but only manages to kill 1 (a good trade off!!!). My PCS, CCS, and IS fire on the termies once again and manage to kill off another rank-and-file termie (can't remember what it was equipped with). The lone IS runs towards the Interceptor objective and just get within range of it with the sarge.
    Results: Wrecked Demolisher, stunned Chimera, and 1 killed Veteran. Killed a termie and blew up the LR Crusader! Currently control 2 objectives to his 0.

    Turn 5
    Opponents: What slim chance he had of winning this game with so few scoring units is now all but gone. In his vengeance he just slogs across the board hoping to kill off more of my brave soldiers. They fire at my PCS and kill off several men, honestly don't remember how many as the game is basically mine at this point and I don't much care.
    Mine: My vets re-embark and their Chimera zooms to the ruined building objective in the center of the board. My IS and CCS fire their ACs and the Interceptor at the termies and kill off another one using BID orders..
    Results: Lost several PCS guardsmen and killed a termie. Control 3 objectives to his 0.
    Roll to End: My opponent rolls a 2 and the game ends.

    All-in-all it was going to be a hard scenario for my DA opponent's small Deathwing force and my spread army made it nearly impossible for him to kill off enough scoring units to really matter (plus he spent two turns bashing on a battle tank). I was able to control half of the board easily and then wittle down his elite units and Land Raider through concentrated fire.

    Definitely learned my lesson about making sure who has Offensive grenades (or in this case a wargear equivalent on his LR) as I lost an entire blob squad with power weapons in a single turn because of it. Other than that each unit performed their role admirably. Vets provided anti-tank and front-line resilience with their transports. IS, PCS, and CCS provided covering fire and orders, along with the potential for late-game objective grabbing. My Devil Dog and Demolisher seemed to underperform, but they took the brunt of his early game fire so I wasn't surprised they didn't last long enough to be effective, but their sacrifice allowed me to be successful with all of my other units. The Demolisher failed to hit ANYTHING yet he was afraid of it enough to waste two turns bashing on it with his hammers on the far board edge, allowing me to consolidate and keep him out of range of doing anything with his expensive unit for the rest of the game.

    Had we played Annihilation I probably would have had to been a lot gutsier because he had so few KPs to give me. Would have had to wipe him out basically.

    Was a relatively fast game, but we only played the 1 game because we had other friends over playing other things, so we didn't want to totally ostracize ourselves

  9. #8
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Sounds awesome!

    Ya can't use Bring it down on Terminators though. It's Tanks or Monstrous creatures only . I wont tell your opponent though hehe

  10. #9
    Senior Member Darguth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord borak View Post
    Sounds awesome!

    Ya can't use Bring it down on Terminators though. It's Tanks or Monstrous creatures only . I wont tell your opponent though hehe
    Danke Good point, still getting used to the new codex (was my first game with it)

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