Welcome to Librarium Online!
Not active for awhile now. My Raven Guard has grown a little bit so i would like to share my current playlist. You guys can rate them then. Finding its downfall, the better.
Shrike - 195
Command Squad, Champion, Apothecary, PF, 2CCW/BP, TL-HB Razorback - 180
5 Assault Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200
10 Tactical Squad, Meltagun, Multi-melta, PF, Drop Pod - 240
10 Tactical Squad, Flamer, Lascannon, Rhino - 215
10 Assault Squad, 2 Plasma Pistols, Power weapon sergeant - 235
5 Devastator Squad, 4 Missile Launcher - 150
Predator AC/HB - 85
By default settings, Shrike will go with ASM and take out an opponent infantry unit. Podding squad finds a tank to pop or just support Shrikes unit from severe counterattack. Devies and Pred just stand back and shoot. Assault termies fleet all the way to the enemy. I dont really know what role should the command squad bring to my list but they are cool. ^^
From my point of view, devastator squad and command squad will get most of the maulings in this list. But i have been playing several times with the list and came up with good successes.
Last edited by 3Xhume; October 29th, 2009 at 11:16.
This list has some units that aren't really helping you, let's see what we can do.
Hmm..... I have to disagree with some of your points, Prince.
First, command squad is a good CC unit. It is not a waste if tooled up for assault. They have 2A each as base stats and Feel no pain for what? 25 points more than 5 standard tactical marine. I dont understand why you pointed that it is a huge waste. Fill me more with better arguments rather than saying it suck. It is too shallow.
Second, have you ever played shrike? I mean really playing it? My assault termies has never failed to find targets on the second turn. It was all about correct deployment. They dont really need LR to be effective. Fleeting will at least assure them third turn assault. Why invest another 250pts only for taxi? Rather than a LR, i would rather bring another assault terminators.
Other than these two point, i can understand your views. But, the vindicator is a little bit risky. My army will be close to the enemy and i dont want any scatter demolisher shells hit mine. >_<
Last edited by 3Xhume; October 29th, 2009 at 17:01.
What do the Termies do? They deploy normally, on foot correct? The way you talk that's what I'm assuming. If so, I don't know how they've ever seen combat, 5 Termies are easily killed by any Rapid Fire weapons in the game, not to mention special weapons. You have a good number of 3++ saves but, they're just way to vulnerable. Termies on foot, even with Fleet, are free kills from.....so many things.
Your Command Squad is tooled for CC, gotcha. You are in a non-assault vehicle, moving at average speed. First turn could easily see them walking depending on terrain, even if you hide them, no Extra Armor on the vehicle so one glancing hit will almost always stop them and smoke doesn't last forever.
Now, they aren't even good in CC. 1 PF, okay a Tactical Squad can take a PF. The Champion has a Power Weapon and a 6++ save. Hmmm, where's the amazing CC ability? 12 S4 attacks (assuming charge) 3 Power Weapon attack and 3 PF attacks. That will not do anything against a dedicated CC unit offensively and against a shooty unit, heck 10 Marines charging that wins. The FnP is fine, except if they're a good CC unit, you'll be tossing them against other such units, who will be ignoring FnP and their save very often, or drowning you in so many attacks it won't matter.
So you have a poor CC unit, with no shooting, who can't score, in a Rhino chassis. Now, they're cheaper than a Tactical squad but are they worth it considering all the strengths a Tactical squad has on them in the big picture?
Hope that's a less shallow argument. Please bear in mind my comments are only made to maximize the lists potential, not for fun or theme. I don't think like that. :]
Note: Why is everyone so afraid of scatters? Marines do not have the men to match an opponent unit for unit in most cases, you'll often have wide open targets. I'm not saying Vindies have 0 weaknesses but scattering onto your men is pretty unlikely since you get to move your army.
Edit: I'm not as super serious as I come across. :]
Last edited by EmoJosh; October 29th, 2009 at 17:20.
I have to agree about the command squad. Look at your own list. If a command squad was coming after you what would you do? If I was running your army I would pop their RB hopefully with the lascannon in the tactical squad then hit them with four krak missiles killing at least two and more likely three hopefully four of them without benefit of armor save or fnp. Your dev squad would be much better with five more men which you could afford if you didnt have the command squad. Not to say I would still take a dev squad but when your talking nilla marines a ten man squad so you can combat squad is the only way to go with devies. Prince is definitely right about troop choice. The rule I always use is one full troop unit for every 500 pts. Even if its a ten man scout squad to save some pts it would still be very helpful when you play for objectives. The termies are the biggest threat to your enemy. Therefor they will draw the most fire. Therefore they will more than likely die unless you just roll very well. I love termies but you need something just as scary as them so that your opponent has trouble choosing who to shoot at.
Well, fine arguments on the command squad as i expect them get the maulings. ^^ They are there for the cool factor mostly. I guess you opened my mind with some new insight.
As for the termies, I would like to ask you which unit in my army would you be targeting in the first turn? In my games, people are too damn worried against my ASM and First turn podding tactical squad. Most of their rapid fire shots is directed to them. So on the first turn, my terminators remain unscathed. And on the second turn, they will realize that it is too late as they are within assault range. I think i rolled average on my saves. Opponent just has so many things to shoot at on the first turn. Most of the time, i lost one termie when they find combat. Then again, in Shrike's army, two assault terminator squad is better than one with LR.
It also depends on the army you are facing. Going against a shooty tau or ig army they will have plenty of shots to spray at everything. I'm looking at this as a sw player with two long fang squads splitting fire and not worried at all about be assaulted by your jump pack marines since even if you charge me i get three attacks most of the time. Which means most if not all of my fire is going for your command squad and termies. Also I would consider replacing command squad dev squad and pred with bikes since they would benefit huge from shrikes fleet ability and a couple of multi-melta attack bikes would ravage armor. I personally think bikes are better than assault marines cause of the toughness bonus and the turboboost save but you do end up paying for that.
Replace the devie squad with a vindicator, it will do much better at AT, anti-infantry, and with its high front armour can survive better while saving you a few points.
Drop the command squad and use the extra devie points on getting a scout squad -10 guys 1 missile launcher 8 snipers and Telion can do remarkably well. Telion giving them stealth, ensuring that that krak missile hits when you need it and can wipe out those power fist sergeants or heavy/special weapon troopers just before they make mince meat of your marines. Who knows you might even get lucky and pin something.
The extra scoring unit will even solve your objective problems, with your list before you could end up with less scoring units than there are objectives; and as a IG player I have a phobia of that.
The Emperor Protects
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
Any good opponent is going after your mobility. Marines sucks on foot, sitting ducks with weapons that want to be within 12". If you lose your mobility, the game swings hard away from you.
What you want is targets to make them question, can I afford to shoot the Rhinos? Vindies are great at that, as Kevin alluded too. They advance with you, slower but still advancing, and if it's ignored it makes an opponent pay. Marines are a very aggressive army, that's why preds and Devs suck imo, those are more IG/Tau units. You want to put everything in your opponents face except maybe a hold back Scout squad in some cases, and let him dig his own grave.
Glad my Command Squad argument helped sway you, they're truly bad.
Actually, i just need some justification on my command squad and devastator purchase. Apparently, I spent my money on sub-par choices. Now, my command will only be standard tactical with special weapons. >_< Unless i go for fun though. Again, I think that they are cool. LOL. As for devastator, i have 4 ML, 2 PC, 2 LC, 2HB, 1MM waiting to be played (or sometimes played with tactical squad). >_<
BTW, the reason i play with only two tactical squads is that i only got two full squads of them. I play WYSIWYG so you need to understand if you find any unorthodox squad setup like ASM w/ 2 Plasma pistols and Power sword. I have glued and paint them as i stated here. SO, to add some more tactical marine, i plan to purchase Black Reach box. I will also get dreadnought even though i dont like them. Then, i thought that i should build a list with BR contents. I need to avoid unnecessary purchase again. Here we go :
Shrike - 195
5 Assault Terminator 3TH/SS, 2LC - 200
5 Terminator, 1 Chainfist, 1 Heavy Flamer - 210
10 Tactical Marine, Meltagun, Multi-Melta, Power Fist, Teleport Homer, Drop Pod - 250
10 Tactical Marine, Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Power Fist, Rhino - 235
10 Tactical Marine, Plasma Cannon - 175
10 Assault Marine, 2 Plasma Pistols, Power Weapon - 235
Okay, before you start pounding the list. I know that one rhino is huge target. I just hope that smoke launchers will help for one turn. Tactical termies deep strike near to podding tactical squad. Assault Termie either go with shrike on the first turn or just fleet as always. Actually, i kinda like plasma pistols ASM cause they can go hunt light tank or IG artillery rear armor. Popped several tanks this way. This list has a good chances to pop tanks with one chainfist, meltas, and plasmas. A lot of MEQ killers. Though i will surrender to Monoliths...
BTW my regular opponents are CSM, SM, Catachan IG (no tanks! only artillery), Orks.