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  1. #1
    Member ChocolateGork's Avatar
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    I500 point list laughs at mech

    OK this is one of first guard lists i have ever made.

    HQ

    Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, medi pack, 3x grenade launchers, bodygaurdx2
    Astropath, carapace Armour, vox caster-295

    Troops

    Infantry platoon

    Platoon command squad- power weapon , medi pack, vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-95

    x3 infantry squad- grenade launcher, vox caster, lascannon- 80

    Heavy weapons squad- 3x lascannons- 105

    Total-435

    Infantry platoon

    Platoon command squad- power weapon , medi pack, vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-95

    x3 infantry squad- grenade launcher, vox caster, lascannon- 80

    Heavy weapons squad- 3x lascannons- 105

    total- 435

    Fast attack- hell hound- 130

    Heavy support

    Leman Russ Punisher- heavy bolter- 200

    Total-1495

    I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe me, you don't want to let them out of your sight.

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  3. #2
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    431 (x8)

    Ton of points sunk into crap upgrades (everything the PCS has), 2 HWS are notoriously easy to kill off and the Punisher is made of fail. You have nothing to hurt hordes, so bringing an anti-mech list is going to accomplish jack all when hordes come calling.

    Lose the junk, add mech and anti-hordish for flexibility.
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

  4. #3
    Member Hockeyman506's Avatar
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    184 (x5)

    Hey there and welcome to the guard. Always nice to see new people to add to the meat grinder. Not a bad start for a list, but there are some big things to point out. I'll break it down by individual choices then look at the army as a cohesive unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocolateGork View Post
    Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, medi pack, 3x grenade launchers, bodygaurdx2
    Astropath, carapace Armour, vox caster-295
    Waaaaaaaay too expensive. This is a very squishy unit that will be the main target for every piece of ordinance the enemy has. Creed can be useful, but you need tailor the army to make use of the ridiculous orders he can give. Kell is too pricey in my mind, I'd drop him.

    Medipack and Carapace aren't so good, they are crazy expensive as well. FNP sounds nice, but you have to realize that these are all T3 so anything S6 or higher will negate it. 4+ save also sounds nice, but it's nothing special for the points you pay. Personally I find the best defensive option to be the camo-cloaks, especially with Creed. He can sit back with a 3+ cover save and still boss most things around.

    Bodyguards are a bit 'meh' for the points, keep the CCS as cheap as possible. Drop them.

    You only have one outflanking unit and I don't think you'll be deploying much in reserves so I'd drop the astropath.

    Vox is useful with Creed, regimental standard would be nice as well. The Grenade Launchers are very nice IMO, but if Creed is going to be stationary in cover, a heavy weapon like an autocannon would be great.


    Platoon command squad- power weapon , medi pack, vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-95
    Unless you are gearing up for a huge CC blob, drop the power weapon (powerfist would be a better choice for CC as the guy is at I3 and will probably be striking last in combat anyway). Drop the medipack, waste of points on a PCS. Vox-caster is okay, but you may want to combine squads to shave down the points on them. Grenade launchers are good, flamers are another option to deter assaulters.


    x3 infantry squad- grenade launcher, vox caster, lascannon- 80
    If you are going with lascannon batteries take 2 20-man squads with lascannons each (forget the GLs) and throw in voxes.

    Something like this:
    • PCS - x3 Grenade Launchers, Vox -50
    • x2 Infantry Squads - x2 Lascannons, Vox - 145
    • x2 Infantry Squads - x2 Lascannons, Vox - 145

    This will maximize you ability to hit multiple targets and get 2 twin-linked lascannon shots with "Bring it down" from Creed. Remember, lascannons are not meant to take down heavy armor, they are for stopping AV12, don't expect them to do overly well against heavy vehicles.

    Consider commissars if you have the points.

    Heavy weapons squad- 3x lascannons- 105
    Bad idea, remember these are T3 so a Multilaser is capable of wiping out the entire squad in one volley. If you are taking HWS keep them cheap(autocannons are best, IMO) and take lots of them.

    hell hound- 130
    Good choice, but keep in mind that because you only have two vehicle, this thing will take a lot of AT fire and probably die very quickly. I'd take a few chimeras (or more hellhounds) to put up some target saturation.

    You seriously lack anti-tank, I think Vendettas or Devil Dogs would do you much better.


    Leman Russ Punisher- heavy bolter- 200
    Probably the worst tank choice in the guard. Take a demolisher instead with a hull heavy flamer and nothing else. You really need the strength 10. Two of them would be even better.



    Overall you can shave a lot of points off of the CCS and give the line-squads more focus. 4 20-man line squads with lascannons are perfect for Creed's 4 orders.

    The lack of anti-tank at 1500 is a bit unsettling, even with that many lascannons. I think you need melta and S10 ordinance just to be safe. Devil Dogs or Demolishers (maybe hellhounds with multi-meltas) would be good.

    Finally there is the lack of mobility. 5th Edition is a game of objective taking and the ability to get scoring units to places quickly is nice. Vendettas with SWSs or Chimeras for the PCS would work.

    Hope this helped.

  5. #4
    Member ChocolateGork's Avatar
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    HQ

    Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, 3x grenade launchers, vox caster-240

    Elites

    5x ratlings-50

    Troops

    Infantry platoon

    Platoon command squad- vox caster, x4 grenade launchers-55

    x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2Heavy weapons squad- 3x auto cannons-145
    Total-490

    Troops

    Infantry platoon

    Platoon command squad- vox caster, x4 grenade launchers-55

    x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2Heavy weapons squad- 3x auto cannons-145
    Total-490

    Heavy support

    Leman Russ Executioner-Plasma cannons, 230

    Total-1500

    The point of this army is to NOT MOVE.

    The command squad will sit in their chimera and with leadership 10 orders rerolling it is not likely orders will fail and 24 inches should reach all squads.

    heavy weapon squads should be in cover and the Russ should take care of any terminators or similar units as well as killing horde units

    the line squads should be able to take care of high Armour units like land raiders and monoliths and with first rank fire second rank fire 120 shots a platoon will rip through anything with toughness 6 down.

    The ratlings are because i had a spare 50 points and the models

    i am thinking of putting a standard Russ in but i don't know where to cut the points.
    I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe me, you don't want to let them out of your sight.

  6. #5
    Member 1337Malekith's Avatar
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    The PCS squads are illegal with a vox and 4 grenade launchers. If you read a bit more near the bottom of options load outs, you can have the officer, 1 vox, and 3 grenade launchers.

    Specifically, and I quote "Any remaing Guardsman that has not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace his lasgun with:"

    Yeah a vox isn't a weapon replacement, but it counts towards the options.

    Demolisher out classes the Punisher and executioner (way to expensive) in every way in close up damage dealing and killing terminators.

    Kell isn't all the great either, get a vet to hold the regimental standard, drop the grenade launchers, buy camo cloaks and a mortar. This will keep Creed good and cozy while being able to hide behind cover. Putting them in a chimera might be a double edge sword, yeah they are safe from assault, but assault units and nearly all heavy weapon fire will toast the chimera depending on how long your leman lasts. Keep them out of LoS with and with cloaks in cover.

    Finally, drop two autocannon teams and get yourself a bare leman battle tank with only a hull heavy bolter if you want that second tank in.
    Last edited by 1337Malekith; December 7th, 2009 at 07:38. Reason: Grammar
    Darks Elves 6000ptsWood Elves 500pts (WIP)
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  7. #6
    Member Hockeyman506's Avatar
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    184 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocolateGork View Post
    HQ
    Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, 3x grenade launchers, vox caster-240
    Still too pricey in my opinion. I'd say drop Kell. I don't see where you are getting the chimera you mentioned at the bottom. A chimera would bump the points up to 295.

    Also, Kell replaces one of the veterans so you can only have x2 grenade launchers and the vox in this squad, though the points are right so just a typo, I guess.

    5x ratlings-50
    Meh, I don't like snipers. If they work for you, fine, could be used to scrounge up points elsewhere.


    Platoon command squad- vox caster, x4 grenade launchers-55

    x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2Heavy weapons squad- 3x auto cannons-145
    Looks good to me. Also what Maelkith said, the PCS is illegal and the HWS are 150, not 145.


    Leman Russ Executioner-Plasma cannons, 230
    There are mixed opinions on this tank, but I personally like this sucker. Unfortunately I think at this point two tanks would be much better than one just in case one of them goes down.

    Total-1500]
    Heheh, despite several of the points typos above, this is exactly on the mark. Kinda cool in an odd sort of way.

    How about this? Drop: Kell, the Executioner, the ratlings, and one autocannon HWS for 440 points. Pick up: x2 Demolishers (hull heavy flamer), x2 Chimeras (one for each of the PCS).

    This does leave the CCS a bit unprotected, but if you hide him in cover behind all of your other squads he should live long enough to get those critical orders issued. The demos can literally kill anything you are having issue with and the chimeras put some more armor and high-strength weapons on the field and can cart the PCS around for objective grabbing (and protection) should you need to.


    The point of this army is to NOT MOVE.
    Unfortunately when 2/3 of games are objective base you really should have a few things mobile to run and capture/contest objectives late in the game. Your call, though.

    The command squad will sit in their chimera and with leadership 10 orders rerolling it is not likely orders will fail and 24 inches should reach all squads.
    Yeah keeping Kell around so you get the LD10 is nice, but if you already have the voxes in the squads he's not really needed. Not enough benefit for the points IMO.

    the line squads should be able to take care of high Armour units like land raiders and monoliths
    Wrong, lascannons don't reliably work against AV14 even with re-rolls. Demolishers do the job much, much better with S10 and being able to roll 2 dice and pick the highest. Yes lascannons can hurt them, but you are much better off hitting AV12 with the lascannons before you work up to the Heavies.

    Autocannons take out transports, light armor, and force wounds on MCs.

    Lascannons take out medium armor, MCs, and then starting going after high AV when there is nothing else to shoot at

    Melta takes out heavy armor.

    Demos/Medusas take out everything

    and with first rank fire second rank fire 120 shots a platoon will rip through anything with toughness 6 down.
    Amen to that.
    Last edited by Hockeyman506; December 7th, 2009 at 08:29.

  8. #7
    Member ChocolateGork's Avatar
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    HQ

    Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, 2x grenade launchers, vox caster-240


    Troops

    Infantry platoon

    Platoon command squad- vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-50

    x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    Heavy weapons squad- 3x missile launcher-90
    Total-430

    Troops

    Infantry platoon

    Platoon command squad- vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-50

    x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

    Heavy weapons squad- 3x autocannon-75
    Total-415

    Heavy support

    Leman Russ Demolisher-lascannon- 180

    Leman Russ Battle tank- Heavy bolter sponsons, lascannon-185

    Total-1500

    I will have kell!

    because i have had bad experience with orders failing.

    missile launchers instead of auto cannons to take Armour 12 or 13 max. and the frag will help anti horde.

    I have gone with a demolisher although if i drop the heavy wepon teams all together i could afford the executioner a light tank of some sort and maybe make the battle tank a vanquisher?
    I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe me, you don't want to let them out of your sight.

  9. #8
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    431 (x8)

    Don't bother with missile launchers, autocannons are just better.

    Kell is not worth it with voxes in place.

    You want to be static, so you'll suffer in objective missions. Also, you may run into crowding issues with 80 guardsmen filling up your deployment zone (Spearhead is going to hurt).

    Don't bother with hull lascannons, BS3 kinda sucks without re-rolls.

    I'd look into something more reliable at busting heavy armor. Hellhounds w/ multi-meltas, Demos, Devil Dogs, the ever popular meltaVets, allied Sisters, and the like. They give you much needed mobility and help against armor. Some crowd control never hurts too considering all your infantry are firing lascannons.
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

  10. #9
    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
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    204 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocolateGork View Post
    OK this is one of first guard lists i have ever made.
    If you want to kill mech, you need to spam autocannons, not lascannons. The odds are near-equal of killing AV10/11/12 with both, so take the low-cost option that has the extra shots to help with hordes and monstrous creatures.

    You'll also need meltas somewhere. Stormtroopers (5-man squads with 2 x melta) cost 105 pts. and can deep-strike with a re-roll. These would be good for taking out heavy armor in your enemy's backfield. But you'll also need some meltas for up close work in your line somewhere.

    Basically, every IG army needs 3 things:

    1) Light Anti-tank fire (Autocannons, Vendettas) for taking out transports and other light armor. This buys you time by making a large percentage of the other guy's force walk into your line. Basically, you need the ability to kill at least 2-3 light tanks on turn one.

    2) Meltas (Or Medusas/Vanquishers/Manticores) for taking out AV13/14 reliably. As a foot army, you need a way to hit tanks both in front of you and in the other guy's backfield.

    3) Template Weapons (Or Eradicators) to kill lots of enemy infantry up close. Even space marines fear massed flamers.
    Come visit my blog at: www.warstrike.org

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocolateGork View Post
    I will have kell!
    Why he's very expensive and

    Quote Originally Posted by ==Me== View Post
    Don't bother with missile launchers, autocannons are just better.

    Kell is not worth it with voxes in place.

    I'd look into something more reliable at busting heavy armor. Hellhounds w/ multi-meltas, Demos, Devil Dogs, the ever popular meltaVets, allied Sisters, and the like. They give you much needed mobility and help against armor.
    Quote Originally Posted by kgoreham View Post

    Basically, every IG army needs 3 things:

    1) Light Anti-tank fire (Autocannons, Vendettas) for taking out transports and other light armor. This buys you time by making a large percentage of the other guy's force walk into your line. Basically, you need the ability to kill at least 2-3 light tanks on turn one.

    2) Meltas (Or Medusas/Vanquishers(not so sure on this one, v.expensive for what it does)/Manticores) for taking out AV13/14 reliably. As a foot army, you need a way to hit tanks both in front of you and in the other guy's backfield.

    3) Template Weapons (Or Eradicators) to kill lots of enemy infantry up close. Even space marines fear massed flamers.
    I agree with this ^

    Hydras I think are one of the best anti-mech units in the guard book, 4 re-rollable autocannon (s7) shots at 72" range which ignore skimmer and turbo booster saves, whats not to love. 2 will pop any transport they shoot at, and can fill other rolls due to weight of fire and reasonable s/ap, while only costing 150pts!!!!! Also in practical terms they are a reasonable size, so transporting to and from the field of battle isn't quite as much of a struggle as vendettas...

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