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I thought I'd post this list for reference and commenting, as a variant of it worked pretty well in my local escalation league.
70 Primaris Psyker (Cheap, Shooty, Rides with Melta Vets)
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Primary Offensive Unit)
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Primary Offensive Unit)
140 Veteran Squad w/3 x Grenade Launcher, Chimera (Guards Home Objective)
120 3 Scout Sentinels w/Autocannons (Primary Anti-Tank w/Assault Blocking Ability)
145 Hellhound w/Hull Multi-Melta (Cover Denying Anti-Infantry, Mild AT Threat)
150 Leman Russ Battle Tank w/Hull Heavy Flamer (Anti-Tank and Anti-Infantry)
Total: 1000 pts.
All comments welcome.
Last edited by SandWyrm; January 31st, 2010 at 22:44.
overall its not bad looking, you seem to lack some long range anti-tank, the russ is nice against most tanks but to me it is useless against another russ or space marine land raider, and will do horribly against a monolith. Well other than that it looks rather nice. Your Chimera and hell hound supported with the russ should be able to deal easily against horde armies and even MCs. Marbo will be a good distraction as will rain havoc on your opponent if he/she doesn't do anyhtign about it. Your sentinels, depends on what you are doing with it, outflanking our just doing a scout move? The weapons on it will do nicely against about everything except heavy armor.
well all I stated is from my experience from fighting heavy armors all the time. and thats all i can say about it except it should be able to play rather nicely.
Land Raiders and Russes are what the Chimeltas are for, as meltas are pretty much the only IG weapon that both works reliably against them and is cost-effective.. By "long-range AT", I really mean "transport killing", which is all I really expect to do at long-range.
I mean to sit at least 4 feet and still be effective at killing tanks of any sort, and your "chimeltas" are cheap anti-tank but the serious problem is range, can they live long enough to get close enough to other tanks, for instance some one is fielding 3 railguns, with a few marker lights down they go. Even with marbo some marker lights could easily take care of him. Thats just an example. So adding a few lascannons to support the chimeras could help or even get rid of the primaris and put it a CCS with a master of the ordance.
3 railguns at 1k? With markerlights? Okay... so he is running what, 2 squads of 5 firewarriors as his troops? In that case, you avoid his railguns, kill his firewarriors and/or their transports and run around in circles until you win the game by kp cause your tau opponent put that many hammerheads on the board.
Generally, chimera's can make it to the opponent's lines well enough. A combination of smokes and clever movement down the field makes them very survivable.
"All I know is a door into the dark" -- The Forge, Seamus Heaney
now that just is underestimating the capabilites of a tau army. and fielding 3 hammerhead is foolish in a 1000pt battle, then again I havent tried that yet. You would have to be verycareful with the chimeras then, smoking them could actualy mean the end of them without them doing about anything. To avoid that you would have to be very clever of what you are doing.
This is a very common misconception.So adding a few lascannons to support the chimeras could help or even get rid of the primaris and put it a CCS with a master of the ordance.
A lascannon is actually inferior to an autocannon (same performance, twice the cost) for killing light armor. Whereas 3 BS3 lascannons have an 8% chance of killing AV14. Even the twin-linked lascannons of a Vendetta only manage 12% or so.
3 BS4 Meltas, on the other hand, have a 52% chance of killing AV14.
So I can spend 735 pts on lascannon HWSs to kill one heavy tank as well as 3 meltas, or I can spend half that on 2 Chimeltas (3 for the low price of 465 pts), one of which is quite likely to get through and do it's job. The MoO, having a 3D6 scatter, isn't even worth considering for AT work.
Game-wise, it's very easy for a Chimelta to kill enemy armor. Consider:
12" Deployment + 12" Move + 2" Disembark + 6/12" melta range = Dead Russes/Raiders at 32" and dead transports at 38"
That's your 16" and 10" line, respectively. If I get a free turn of movement (smoke, covering Russes, dawn-of-war deployments) before my charge, you can't really hide from me.
that's where it will kill you, never rely on percentages for dice rolling, the math may show that data, but in reality its just wierd, what you think should happen doesn't and what you think that shouldn't does. The melta seems nice but its effectivness is at 6 inches or 12 with the mutli, then to destroy those 14 armor vehicles you need a 6 to glance then a 6 to destroy it if you're not close enough.
But if you're using a HWTs you can field 6 lascannons for 210pts where you can destroy about anything you see. I've done this before an I've done wonders with the the lascannons.
MysticSunder, are you suggesting that he should relly un dumb luck, instead of simple and true methematical (and in this case scientific) rules? ^^
It looks like a nice list, mate. Just as usual you've uncluded something for most kinds of jobs ^^. I do find that you're slightly lacking in the are of taking down 3+ As MC's. I always include a few Plasmas in my lists for theese. I knwo they're not as versitile as Meltas, and I know that meltas can take care of MC's. But, you only have 6 so I wouldn't rely allt to heavily on them taking down a MC-heavy list. Of course, you'll be stacking wounds with ML's, AC's and the Primaris. But still, I'd include a Vet-squad with Plasmas. But, personal taste
I think you'll do fine with this list ^^
Cheers and good luck in your games! ^^
-"Oh God, this is going to take a while..."
I've found lascannons to be pretty unreliable in destroying heavy armor. for all its hype, a lascannon will GLANCE 1/6 of the time, and PEN 1/6 of the time on AV14. Those arent high probabilities. Especially when you factor in the lascannon HWT misses 1/2 of the time. Even with 3 shots, it's not good odds.
With Meltaguns (in transports, to get them where they need to go) your chances go up for success considerably. I'm pretty sure this is Sandwyrm's point. We've tested lascannons vs autocannons many times, and found autocannons will typically give better results, especially when point cost is factored.
Mech transports are fairly resilient, and with the amount of armor this list has, unless you've tailored your list to eat armor, at least one chimelta will hit it's mark. with 6 armored targets to choose from, I wouldn't be too afraid of 3 Tau railguns. even if you've use markerlights to improve BS.
sure, if you focus those 3 railguns on a chimera, use a markerlight to raise BS to 4, hit with 2 of 3, then smoke negates 1/2...Even on side armor, you've got a 3/6 chance to wreck or explode the chimera.
Then the other chimeras, autocannons, hellhound, and Russ hug you for ignoring them.
Part of the reality of 5th ed is that games aren't fought very often at 36-48", they're usually in the 18-36" first turn, then closer from there on. Unless you're playing gunlines... then yeah, you're both sitting still, not claiming objectives, blasting away at each other at 36-48" all game. If sit and spit is your game, go for the lascannon.
This is a pretty decent starters list for mechanized IG. It offers flexibility, and can take on hordes as well as mech armies.
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