1500 Raven Guard - without Shrike! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    My backpack has JETS! Ravendove's Avatar
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    545 (x8)

    1500 Raven Guard - without Shrike!

    I haven't included Shrike in this list because personally I feel Kantor helps it a lot more. He would be representing Captain Corvin Arkham of the RG Fourth Company, perhaps. I can have between 4-8 scoring units and everything can deep strike/infiltrate/outflank.

    Kantor
    175

    10 Sternguard
    4 Combi-meltas, 1 Powerfist
    Drop Pod
    330

    10 Sternguard
    4 Combi-meltas, 1 Powerfist
    Drop Pod
    330

    10 Scouts
    4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, 5 Shotguns, 1 Meltabomb
    155

    10 Scouts
    4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, 5 Shotguns, 1 Meltabomb
    155

    Land Speeder Storm
    50

    Land Speeder Storm
    50

    Land Speeder Squadron (x2)
    2 Multi-melta, 2 TML


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  3. #2
    No Life King Alzer's Avatar
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    324 (x8)

    OOoooh, I must say, I like it. The combat squaded scouts are a fantastic idea. Not a big Kantor fan, but with this set up...I guess I still just don't like him .

  4. #3
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    403 (x8)

    I'd try and find a way to get a 3rd drop pod in there, so you get both sets of SG turn 1.
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

  5. #4
    My backpack has JETS! Ravendove's Avatar
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    545 (x8)

    Actually, I would much rather have one Drop Pod in reserve. The reason for this is that if you have both Sternguard Pods dropping in on Turn 1, it makes the army rather predictable. All your enemy has to do is choose to go 2nd or reserve everything, suddenly he has the advantage.

    As it stands, one Sternguard squad can support any position on the board immediately, while other arrives later in the game once the enemy has played their cards.

  6. #5
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    403 (x8)

    You still have that option with 3 pods, only you ALSO get the option of both dropping turn 1 if that's what you want. Currently, you don't have that choice.
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

  7. #6
    My backpack has JETS! Ravendove's Avatar
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    545 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by realitycheque View Post
    You still have that option with 3 pods, only you ALSO get the option of both dropping turn 1 if that's what you want. Currently, you don't have that choice.
    You realise that half of all Drop Pods (rounding up) have to drop on Turn 1, right? There's no choice there. Two of them would always come down. If I really wanted both Sternguard squads on the table on the first turn, I could just deploy them on foot as normal.

    Besides, I'm not sure how I would squeeze another Drop Pod in. What would you suggest? I've been toying with a Dreadnought in DP, because that Forgeworld RG Ven. Dreadnought is too sexy, but I'm not sure what I could drop without compromising the effectiveness of the rest of the list.

    Perhaps reduce the Sternguard squads to like, 6-7 men each. I don't know.
    Last edited by Ravendove; February 1st, 2010 at 14:21.

  8. #7
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    Good list, Ravendove!

    What realitycheque is trying to say: if you had a third pod, you could still only drop one sternguard pod (and the third pod - because, as you have stated, you must drop two) on turn one and save the other sternguard pod for turns two-plus.
    It would be nice to have a third pod, but I agree that it is hard to fit one in without reducing something else. Do not ever -if it can be avoided- reduce your podding sternguard to fewer than ten models. The nice extra with drop pods is delivering the entire unit and then splitting it into combat squads in order to engage two different targets. You do not want to give up that ability, believe: it is priceless.

    What I am a little worried about is your list's anti-horde effectiveness. All you have is six small blasts per turn (two of them with inferior BS) and a single one-use-only scatters-like-hell orbital bombardment for templates / blast markers. Not a single flamer, not a single (multi-use) large blast, and not too many normal shots either. You lack quantity of shots which -against some armies- is more important than quality of shots.
    I don't know how to cope for that, though, so don't ask.

    Another thing to consider: you use shotguns on the scouts. Why not use close combat weapons (and shoot the bolt pistols) instead? Half the number of shots, granted, but the shots have an AP-rating and the missing ones are made up for by the fact that you get double the attacks in close combat instead. And remember that those casualties (the ones inflicted in hand-to-hand) count towards the combat resolution -unlike the shotgun kills- thus helping you to force a morale check and sweeping the enemy (making best use of the neat -2 mod for assaulting from the storm).

  9. #8
    My backpack has JETS! Ravendove's Avatar
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    545 (x8)

    Hey Red Archer! Thanks for stopping by, your wise words are always appreciated.

    I do realise that there is not a lot of anti-horde here. I would be relying mostly on massed bolter fire and missile blasts. I've also got two Drop Pods with Storm Bolters that can double as horde control, shutting off movement and creating firing lanes. But yeah, it's not enough.

    Suggestions for great anti-horde capability while retaining anti-tank:
    - Missile Launchers for the Drop Pods, but these are risky with scatter and low range
    - Combi-flamers on Scout Sergeants
    - Heavy Flamers on Land Speeder Storms
    - Combi-flamers in Sternguard Squads (I don't want to remove any Boltguns by buying Heavy Flamers)

    What do you reckon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Archer View Post
    Another thing to consider: you use shotguns on the scouts. Why not use close combat weapons (and shoot the bolt pistols) instead? Half the number of shots, granted, but the shots have an AP-rating and the missing ones are made up for by the fact that you get double the attacks in close combat instead. And remember that those casualties (the ones inflicted in hand-to-hand) count towards the combat resolution -unlike the shotgun kills- thus helping you to force a morale check and sweeping the enemy (making best use of the neat -2 mod for assaulting from the storm).
    Personally, I like to whittle the enemy down a little before engaging in combat. With Storm transports, these Scouts (5 Shotguns + Meltabomb) will often be attacking vehicles or small units on Turn 1 (before vehicles can move or objectives be secured). Any unit assaulted will often be in cover and will go first, so the idea is to take out as much as possible from shooting before assaulting, so I take less attacks on the initial strikes.

    What I don't want happening is that the Scouts win the combat by a large margin, because they'll be vulnerable to counter-attack in the opponents turn (when reserves come on or whatever). I want to keep them locked in combat in the opponent's turn, to minimise casualties.

    Does that make sense?
    Last edited by Ravendove; February 1st, 2010 at 19:59.

  10. #9
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravendove View Post
    Suggestions for great anti-horde capability while retaining anti-tank:
    - Missile Launchers for the Drop Pods, but these are risky with scatter and low range
    - Combi-flamers on Scout Sergeants
    - Heavy Flamers on Land Speeder Storms
    - Combi-flamers in Sternguard Squads (I don't want to remove any Boltguns by buying Heavy Flamers)
    All of these are good. But what to add is not the difficult question, rather where to take the points from!
    I would refrain from deathwind launchers, the combi-flamers on the scouts probably aren't the answer either (since you want to cause few shooting casualties anyway). Combi-flamers on sternguard are very effective, but the sternguard are also your anti-tank and anti-MC. If you can find the points, though, that would sure be awesome. The heavy flamers on the storms is a very viable option too, more so because it helps cover for the vehicle's lower BS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ravendove View Post
    Personally, I like to whittle the enemy down a little before engaging in combat. With Storm transports, these Scouts (5 Shotguns + M will often be attacking vehicles or small units on Turn 1 (before vehicles can move or objectives be secured). Any unit assaulted will often be in cover and will go first, so the idea is to take out as much as possible from shooting before assaulting, so I take less attacks on the initial strikes.

    What I don't want happening is that the Scouts win the combat by a large margin, because they'll be vulnerable to counter-attack in the opponents turn (when reserves come on or whatever). I want to keep them locked in combat in the opponent's turn, to minimise casualties.

    Does that make sense?
    For the most part, yes!

    Remember that your scouts have frag grenades. You will strike at your standard initiative even when assaulting into cover. Your models will not strike at only I1. That's what we're an elite army for: that our soldiers come with grenades standard.

    The other thing I worry about is scouts remaining in combat for more than one turn. If they don't kill their target right away (though shooting and assaulting their target) what good are they going to do? How will they ever win combat if not first turn? Everything else is not only wasting the cerberus launchers on the storms, but also somewhat wishful thinking that your scouts will accomplish something they are not made for. They won't last long in close combat: they are only five, and they only have 4+ armor. If they can't kill their target the turn they shoot it and charge it, then they're very likely lost.

    Remember that you have the extra attack from the close combat weapons each player turn, so effectively twice as often as the extra shotgun shot. If you assault vehicles on the first turn you will even more so be better off with close combat weapons, because of the possibility of being assaulted yourself. And comparing overall effectiveness: the target unit either has no cover and you can profit from the AP value of the bolt pistol shot and then might have the only expense of your additional close combat attack hitting with a smaller probability than an additional shotgun shot (might be only a 4+ in close combat, against capable target units), but you're still better off. And if the target has cover, then it won't be able to use that save in close combat, where the extra attack thus might be more effective than the additional shotgun shot. Just saying...

    I would go bolt pistol and close combat weapon instead of shotguns. But your call!

  11. #10
    My backpack has JETS! Ravendove's Avatar
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    545 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Archer View Post
    All of these are good. But what to add is not the difficult question, rather where to take the points from!
    Well, the list above only comes to 1445. So there's some wiggle room there

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Archer View Post
    Remember that your scouts have frag grenades. You will strike at your standard initiative even when assaulting into cover. Your models will not strike at only I1. That's what we're an elite army for: that our soldiers come with grenades standard.
    A very good point that I had completely forgotten. You're right of course, I should be gearing these Scouts to deal as much damage in combat as possible. On the other hand, Shotguns look bitching. For this reason I'll be compromising and mixing the two configurations!

    Here's the updated list:

    Kantor
    175

    10 Sternguard
    4 Combi-melta, 1 Powerfist
    Drop Pod
    335

    10 Sternguard
    4 Combi-melta, 3 Combi-flamers, 1 Powerfist
    Drop Pod
    335

    10 Scouts
    4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher
    2 Shotguns, 3 BP/CCW, 1 Meltabomb and Combi-flamer
    165

    10 Scouts
    4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher
    2 Shotguns, 3 BP/CCW, 1 Meltabomb and Combi-flamer
    165

    Land Speeder Storm
    Heavy Flamer
    60

    Land Speeder Storm
    Heavy Flamer
    60

    Land Speeder Squadron
    Multimelta, Missile Launcher
    Multimelta, Missile Launcher
    200

    Total: 1500
    Last edited by Ravendove; February 1st, 2010 at 21:27.

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