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I've always wanted to create a Elysian list, because the concept of elite human troops always stood apart from the cannon fodder human armies 'blah'. Training and good equipment will make any man worth so much more. The more your troops survive the more experience they carry on with them, and can impart to others. So in essence I've always felt armies like Cadians or whatever were... short sighted, and lacking personality. Not to say I don't like the list, dont get me wrong.
That were Elysian come in. High tech elite soldiers with air power. I can no longer wait for FW to do their thing, because they are company first and not hobbyist second, they are out to make money. Plus whatever they put out new, still dont think they'd match my idea of what elysian are like. Like jet packs, why aren't their jetpacks in their friggin army list? (I would go as far as to say why are there even jet packs general rule, when only tau have the rules, but whatever). Jetpacks just seem like a no brainer to me for elysians. plus, why would they have commissars?! they are elite after all, and shooting your own elite soldiers that you've spent a lot of money to train it just... stupid! counterproductive!
Even more so, none of the current list shout 'elite' to me. Especially the Taros Campaign. Looked more like cut and paste job to me. The D99 regiment get closer but the point cost is RIDICULOUS for these guys, hence no one uses them (often, cant say always).
So I want to make my own. I need your help though, I only got fluff from the imperial army books. is there more out there? don't care if its fan fluff either i can throw that in as well.
Here's the general idea of what I am going do for the army list, which i want to flesh out. Help me refine it, maybe suggest units I should add, what I should take away, or what should be replace with a more rational unit.
Company Command Veteran Squad
Techno-Sorcerer-type (bare with me)
Psyker Battle Squad
Veteran Sniper Teams
Cyborgs (Ogryn equivalent)
Hydra Flak Tank Battery
Dropped Armor Sentine Squadron
Vulture Gunship like Variant (current rules kinda stink and are a bit archaic so I'll be redesigning this)
Sentry Gun Battery
Hope we can have fun with this!
I think the current guard codex gives a reasonable basis for an Elysian force.
HQ: You could use straken or Marbo to represent the combat characters. Straken type character could also give his CCS the deepstrike ability. I would of course want the model to look like Gene Hackman.
The sniper character seems a decent idea. Taking him could alow you to use a retinue of BS4 snipers in a SWS type unit with infiltrate and camo cloacks.
Command character could be a comissar lord or creed.
Inquisition character can just be the allied =][= lord or elites choice inquisitor.
Elites: Storm troopers here as normal. Psyker squad doesn't seem very Elysian to me. The odd astropath as an advisor seems fine but not whole units of them all trained up in jumping out of aircraft. Ogryns too don't fit at all no matter how you try to explain them away.
Troops: All veteran armies are now perfectly normal in the IG codex. No need for a D99 extra list as troops and CCS can now be BS4.
Inventing a 4th doctrine of deepstrike would be my method of representing jetbacks. Reading the IA Vol3 background it makes it quite clear that they are anti gravity chutes designed to slow decent rather than reverse it and operate like jump infantry. Alow veteran squads to use deepstrike and charge 30 points for the doctrine.
Normal BS3 squads could still be taken. Only one of the elysian lists has everything BS4 although they did have the veterans doctrine alowing 0-3 units of vets.
Fast: Dificult to take fast attack as the vendettas and valks tend to use up all the slots. Moving sentinels into heavy could help as the background says they don't scout and are used more for fire support rather than recon.
Another option would be to take Valkrie as dedicated transports to free up FA slots. Vendettas should not be allowed as dedicated transports in my view. 6 vendettas at the moment are powerful but can only shoot 3 targets as they are in squadrons. Alowing 6 vendettas in units of one would be unbalanced. The new forgeworld attack buggy looks like a fast attack slot with option to take the sky talon as a transport for it.
Heavy: Ditch hydras. They are AA not airmobile so wouldn't be used. Vultures and tarantula sentry weapons should be fine. Artillery strike fron IA Vol1 could represent fire support from allied artillery units or airsupport. Those Sabre weapon platforms from forgeworls could be a good heavy support unit representing heavy weapons brought in earlier.
Last edited by Mad Cat; March 1st, 2010 at 17:41.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
The list is fine, but I don't think veteran list are all that great in the current codex. More often than not, I think they are left exposed once dropped, without the proper support. It would be nice if IG FW had an assault vehicle, so I could absorb that into the list.
IG plays now, as I see it, is just a glutten of heavy vehicles with necessary troops support. For an actually Elysian list to work, IMO, is they need fast vehicles--vendettas, vultures, w/e, and they should have an assault vehicle they can launch from. Any footmen should have Relentless otherwise, I think being static, isn't a Elysian trait. The concept, as I see it, doesn't differ from regular IG--soften the enemy up and then engage them on your own terms, except instead of heavy fire power, the list has mobility to decide the terms engage the enemy.
The Hydra doesn't really fit, true.
The psyker battle squad and cyborg may not fit but then the list wouldn't have any elite choice. Storm troopers should be troops for elysians, make up for the lack of regular troops. I think storm troopers aren't broken by far, so I think they are fine there, as using regular troops doesn't really allow for mobility. Beside they have less options than Veterans, more expensive, they have no Vox, no PF, no Heavy Weapons, they are a situational unit, always will be.
I agree, the new codex gives a good approximation but there are still things that could be played with for a pure Elysian list such as Veteran Heavy and Special Weapon squads in their own FOC slots, probably as Elites.
I would make Valkyries Dedicated Transports and move Vendettas into Heavy Support with Vultures leaving Fast Attack for Drop Sentinels and the new Tauros Venator.
Elysians are paratroopers so they should be given the ability to deep strike (either as a per squad upgrade or through a special character). Combining that and the number of Valkyries and Vendettas that should be possible means you shouldn't need jump packs or jetpacks.
What role would you have the jump infantry filling? Having Veterans, Storm Troopers and Special Weapons Squads in an army pretty much covers your Special Weapon requirements and IG are pretty poor in CC. Maybe if you gave the Storm Troopers the option of upgrading to Jump Packs, and I would make them Jump Packs not Jetpacks as the Imperium doesn't have that technology, if they did then every Space Marine chapter would be using them already.
Elysians shouldn't have Hydras, they don't fit the Elysian concept. For one they aren't air mobile and two they would be deployed primarily as mobile air defence. This generally means that your forces would be operating in an area where you don't have air superiority, in which case the Elysians would either deploy early and make their way to the target zone covertly on foot or make a HALO jump where they have a greater degree of safety.
Some good points Slug. Didn't think about Valkyries as Dedicated.
Vultures are still Heavy support though, if I remember they have fair amount of weapons. The rules are available on FW, WHEW, TL Punisher Gatling guns?! Count me in. A squad of them, TL shots, with armor cockpits? Gah. I'm in love.
On the other hand, Vultures as FA and Vendettas at Heavy might be just right.
Jet pack technology? lol jump packs are better, technically... i dont think its a big jump that IG would have the tech. but w/e, these ideas help, dont need jet packs. im thinking including a upgrade to assault after jumping out.
Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2 puts Vultures into FA but I agree with you. My wording might have been a little misleading but I think Vultures and Vendettas should be Heavy Support.
You can assault from a valkyrie. On turn zero move your valkyrie to 13" away from the enemy using your scout move. On turn one deploy the passengers 2" forewards from the base (as per the FAQ you can disembark from any point of the base). In the movement phase move 6", fire your shotguns and then assault 6" into those pesky Tau.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
i am actually doing an elysian army my self and i would recommend using the IG codex instead of IA's D99 rules.