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7th Menkse Airborne (1500 pts)

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1K views 24 replies 4 participants last post by  Serran 
#1 · (Edited)
Serran Hussar GMAleron said:
Company Command
4 Meltaguns
90
5 Storm Troopers
2 Plasma Guns
115
5 Storm Troopers
2 Plasma Guns
115
5 Storm Troopers
2 Plasma Guns
115
Veteran Squad
~Shotguns
3 Meltaguns
Demolitions
130
Veteran Squad
~Shotguns
3 Meltaguns
Demolitions
130
PCS
Missile Launcher
45
Infantry Squad
Missile Launcher
65
Infantry Squad
Missile Launcher
Commissar
100
Infantry Squad
Missile Launcher
65
Infantry Squad
Missile Launcher
Commissar
100
Vendetta
~HvyBolter Sponsons
140
Vendetta
~HvyBolter Sponsons
140
Vendetta
~HvyBolter Sponsons
140

1495pts
Alright so I am forming an airborne company. While I do want it to be competitive to a degree, fun and fluffy has to fit in as well. Thus I know many will say stormtroopers are not the most efficient use of points, but I must field as many Kasirkin models as possible! :p

The Fluff for this unit is here

What I need help on here is what sort of configuration should I be looking at for my Penal Legions, and the veteran squads. Idea is to deploy the veterans and command squad via the gunships, and keep the stormtroopers for deep strike with their meltas. The penal legions are added scoring units to help with capturing home objectives, giving manpower and fire, and otherwise filling out the list. Penal Legions don't fit too well in the fluff, but I will most likely use the 'counts as' rule and say they are veterans of a sort, perhaps even from the massacre. This is also the fluff unit I draw from for kill team games so it's so far been fun to assemble them.

*Penal Legions replaced with infantry.
 
#2 ·
Could work. A few things though:

Drop the Carapace, on everyone. Now worth their pts. Just let them have their Plasmas. I'd consider perhaps giving them Demolitions, or giving the CCS Meltas, to have more ways to handle armour, in case your Stromtroopers scatters to hell.

Drop the Penal Legions, exchange them with Infantry Squads with AC/ML and GL. Give the PCS the same kit, but just double up on the GL. Throw in a Commissar to keep them in line, and you've got something to hold your home objective.

I'd exchange at least one of the Valkyries for another Vendetta. If you it your veterans with Demolitons, you'll have some stopping power against hordes there.

In conclusion, could work, could be funny, but not the msot reliable list i've seen ^^

Good luck in your games ^^

Cheers ^^
 
#5 ·
Cheers SotE ;)

Yes, thoose are the things I could notice. But, looking again, perhaps droping a Strom Trooper from every unit wouldn't be to bad. You're paying some extra pts for some not-so-usefull extra shots. I think you cna find some better sure for the pts ^^

Following your guidelines, how about something along the lines of...

Company Command
4 Meltaguns
90

5 Storm Troopers

2 Meltaguns
105


5 Storm Troopers

2 Meltaguns
105


5 Storm Troopers

2 Meltaguns
105

Veteran Squad
3 Plasma guns
Demolitions

145

Veteran Squad
3 Plasma guns
Demolitions

145

PCS
Autocannon
2 Grenade Launchers

50

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher

65

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher
Commissar

100

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher

65

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher
Commissar

100

Valkyrie
Multiple Rocket Pods
130

Vendetta
130

Vendetta
130

1465pts

This would leave you with 35pts to spare, and it lacks some armour, but it could work. Anyways, it's just a suggestion for a basis.

Cheers ^^
 
#9 · (Edited)
First off its great to see another guard player join the ranks of the Airborne/Air Cav. Looking over Hussars list i would say that what he has got so far is very good (cheers mate :beer:) however i do have some minor suggestions mainly based of experience and personal opinion. However i will be basing this off Hussars list as i wont have to change much. My thoughts are in red:

Company Command
4 Meltaguns
90
-This is perfect. I wouldn't change a thing except to add an Astropath for your stormtroopers who im guessing are deep striking. Having him is a great way to ensure they get their quickly and since you have 35 points to spare this guy is a must take.



5 Storm Troopers

2 Meltaguns
105


5 Storm Troopers

2 Meltaguns
105


5 Storm Troopers

2 Meltaguns
105
-Now with these guys you are going to want to exchange their melta guns for plasma guns and there is a good reason behind this. In my experience i have found when this squad can fire both plasmas and hotshot lasguns you have the potential of really doing some troop damage. The meltas negate this somewhat however as it makes them more of a tank hunting unit. Taking plasma also enables you to take out lighter vehicles if you have to.

Veteran Squad
3 Plasma guns
Demolitions

145

Veteran Squad
3 Plasma guns
Demolitions

145
-With the veterans exchange the plasma guns with melta guns as im guessing these two squads and the Company Command Squad will be going in your flyers. The reason behind this is that with the plasma and demolitions combination you are essentially taking a 30 point demolition charge. Plasma guns are rapid fire and if you shot them and werent in range with your demo charge it would mean that you get assaulted, could lose and hence waste of 30 points. Always take assault weapons with the demolitions doctrine so you have the ability to use your demo charge and of course assault afterwards. That may sound weird but in my experience ive found out its better to assault then be assaulted, especially in the slight chance your shooting at a vehicle and miss with all your melta veterans. Also be sure to give the rest of your veterans shotguns to enable the assault. The demo charge is there in case you come across a big squad of infantry.

PCS
Autocannon
2 Grenade Launchers

50

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher

65

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher
Commissar

100

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher

65

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher
Commissar

100
-Wouldnt change a thing here. Im guessing you will be combining these into 2 squads of 20 which is a very smart thing to do and the Commissars are an added bonus. Plus this covers the troop killing part of your army. However for points sake consider dropping one of the Commissars and adding him to your PCS and maintain a close enough distance between the 2 troop squads.

Valkyrie
Multiple Rocket Pods
130

Vendetta
130

Vendetta
130
-This looks okay except that i would take three vendettas with door gunners. The Vendetta is easily the best fast attack choice in the game (in my opinion) and it scares the hell out of your opponents. Plus it adds some needed anti tank and with the heavy bolters it can shred infantry squads. This combination is the best one to go with.


Now with my changes this would bring your army to a grand total of 1525 points which can be easily brought down 25 by dropping either the astropath or cheapening up your infantry squads. Personally since your relying on the storm troopers id consider dropping one of the commissars and adding one to the platoon command. Just keep the PCS within 12 of the 2 squads and your golden. Hope this helps mate a good luck!
 
#6 ·
I was looking at several things following your suggestion, both in rules and game stats, and in model choices and the like.

Just wondering, is an Autocannon much better than a Missile Launcher? I prefer the MLs over the Autocannons, and the MLs are something an airborne group would have more than a large autogun.

Finally is there any reason not to give Carapace Armor to one of the command squads seeing as I have extra points? Or even spread some grenades out. I know they are not normally worth the points, but since I have the extra points I see no reason not to use them. Also I see only two commisar, and four infantry squads, are you suggesting I merge two squads together so that both squads become an element that the commisar can spread his influence on?

Also, when it comes to the double Vendetta, the firepower is much greater, but with the Multiple Missile pods stacked on the two Valkyries, I would be giving the enemy extra incentive to keep soldiers in reserve, giving my army a better chance of singling out and destroying elements of the enemy. As it stands, I will still probably outnumber my oponent, but not by a comfortable margin as most IG armies have. But I inderstand the Vendettas have a much better chance of stopping heavy armor than Valkyries, and I have autocannons/missile launchers to kill transports with.

I have friends that will swear by template weapons, as a primarily Tau player I have never really used them. Grenade Launchers and Multi Missile Pods both use blast templates, and I seem to have quite a few grenade launchers in the list. Are they there for the horde control effect, or are they generally useful?
 
#7 ·
In most cases, the AC is better than the ML. The fact that it puts out twice the amount of shots makes the chance to penetrate armour that much higher. But, looking through your list again, upgrading them to ML's might not be a bad idea. You are somewhat lacking in your ability to take out some important things, like MEQ (Marine Equivalents, meaning a 3+ As). Seeing as you have the pts, I think investing in upgrading the AC's here might actually be worth the pts. You'd get some more Ap3 weapons, and some templates in case you'd be facing hordes (it sounds like this is in the local metagame where you live, so I guess you should adapt).

The Infantry Squads would be combines into two squads of 20, yes. Sorry if that was unclear :). Spreading them out into Squads of 20 is often a good idea, and two of theese will have a nice time holding your objectives ^^

This is something that totally depend son the metagame of your area. If the people around there have not yet gone Mechanized, then templates are useful. But, the most effective meta-game in 40k at the time being is Mechanized formations, and there the MRP's won't help you all to much. One Valkyrie is good enough to take some shots at the occational squads, and work as a sweet ride for your CCS. You need the two Vendettas in this list. If you switch the AC's to ML's you'd have plenty of shots to take care of MC's and Transports with.

Templates effect vary. It's good against hordes, "Meh" against Mechanized. Depends on what people play in your gaming group. If people play infantry, then templates are quite usefull, yes. If your enemy plays Mechanized, then they are less usefull. Altough they DO still always have their uses, they're just more worthwhile against infantry hordes.

Cheers ^^
 
#8 · (Edited)
I mainly have encountered eldar, ork, and guard. That will change now though as I will be joining another group on a new table here. I am US Army currently stationed in South Korea. I have two years here X_x and was trying to decide between assembling more Tau out here, or making some Guard. I decided on the airborne guard for a lot of reasons. Less models than standard guard mainly. I am not sure if templates will be helpful here, for all I know everyone will have chaos deamons here :p

But in anycase I will be using Elysian models from FW mainly, though I like the cadian rebreather heads better than the Elysian drop helmets. Your aid thus far hussar is extremely appreciated. Since you added comissar to my list I have been looking for some good drop soldier looking conversions for a comissar. Can't jump out of a valkyrie in a great coat... that would just be asking for trouble. ^_^


P.S. About grenade launchers, would it ever be better to just keep those members of the squad with lasguns, and spend the points elsewhere? I fear friendly fire with all those grenade lanchers o_O
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thanks for the input GMAleron, and your points come directly in parallel with some questions I came up with looking over the codex.

Adding retinue to the CCS. Do astropaths and the like replace his guardsmen, or are they in addition to. Meaning, does his squad go from 5 tp 6 models when I add the astropath? Or are one of the veteran guards replaced with the astropath... the wording is weird and says 'joins the retinue'.

Shotguns are interesting options as they are assault weapons, but they have half the range of the lasgun, which seems to be devoting the veterans to an assaulting role. Democharge being a good softening weapon... but with scatter the veterans seem likely to blow themselves up X_x.
~Nevermind... I see what you mean, demolitions gets us melta bombs, so even assaulting a vehicle is a decent idea at that point, and makes better use of the demolition doctrine's 30 pts.

I plan on trading the autocannons for Missile Launchers, giving me the missile choice allowing them to be employed as light vehicle killers and infantry disk droppers. Loosing the meltas on the glory boys seems like further loss of AT ability, though I suppose three vendettas have that covered.

I was going to ask about door gunners, but you have answered it right off.

Final question, you suggest adding the commissar to the PCS, and keeping them near the mob of infantry that has none... isn't this risking my platoon commander over a squad sargent if he sumarily executes someone? Or better yet, should I not swap the upgrades of the CCS and PCS, and keep the CCS back with the large mobs, and give the PCS the frontline/behind enemy lines position in one of the vendettas? Seems like I would be risking my senior officer by rushing him to the objectives.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the input GMAleron, and your points come directly in parallel with some questions I came up with looking over the codex.

Adding retinue to the CCS. Do astropaths and the like replace his guardsmen, or are they in addition to. Meaning, does his squad go from 5 tp 6 models when I add the astropath? Or are one of the veteran guards replaced with the astropath... the wording is weird and says 'joins the retinue'.
QUOTE]

-The Astropath would join your company commander and 4 origional guardsmen that are already in the squad. With your stormtroopers this will help them get in faster, trust me on this he is needed.
Shotguns are interesting options as they are assault weapons, but they have half the range of the lasgun, which seems to be devoting the veterans to an assaulting role. Democharge being a good softening weapon... but with scatter the veterans seem likely to blow themselves up X_x.
~Nevermind... I see what you mean, demolitions gets us melta bombs, so even assaulting a vehicle is a decent idea at that point, and makes better use of the demolition doctrine's 30 pts.
-Exactly, there is much more to the demolitions doctrine then just the demolition charge. Granted yes you do risk blowing up your guys every time you use it but when it works well it more then makes up for it. Also your army is also pretty risky so whats wrong with taking another one? Go for it.

I plan on trading the autocannons for Missile Launchers, giving me the missile choice allowing them to be employed as light vehicle killers and infantry disk droppers. Loosing the meltas on the glory boys seems like further loss of AT ability, though I suppose three vendettas have that covered.
-Exactly, your Vendettas and the squads they are carrying are the ones capable of dealing the most anti tank damage and can also "alpha strike". And dont think the Storm Troopers are losing their AT ability when being given plasma guns. With these guys you will be deepstriking and chances are (unless your playing lanraider spam) you can deepstrike so you are in position to shoot at either the rear or side armor of a vehicle. The plasmas just makes this a more universal unit, able to take on both vehicles and men. And since they can rapid fire right after they arrive that means 4 St. 7 Ap. 2 shots into side or rear armor at Bs. 4. Thats not to shabby. The missile launchers arent a bad idea as template weapons seem to be one of if not our best asset and it would make it more universal, just remember your paying more points for missile launchers so your list will have to change.

I was going to ask about door gunners, but you have answered it right off.
-Always ALWAYS take door gunners with Vendettas. It allows you to take on infantry and hordes if there are no vehicles or you already destroyed them all.

Final question, you suggest adding the commissar to the PCS, and keeping them near the mob of infantry that has none... isn't this risking my platoon commander over a squad sargent if he sumarily executes someone? Or better yet, should I not swap the upgrades of the CCS and PCS, and keep the CCS back with the large mobs, and give the PCS the frontline/behind enemy lines position in one of the vendettas? Seems like I would be risking my senior officer by rushing him to the objectives.
-First off i only mentioned the commissar to your PCS as to cheapen up points for hussars list. Hussars list was actually better with the 2 in the squads however becaue of the point cost i was trying to make it so you could take what was needed more, not neccesarily what you didnt need. And no you would not want to swap your upgrades between your PCS and your CCS for one huge reason. Your CCS guardsmen are veterans meaning they have a BS of 4 whereas the PCS have a BS of 3. You will do more damage with your meltaguns there so leave those as is.

Yes you would be risking your senior officer but at the same time you have to consider tactics. Just because this list seems to be meant for an aggresive guard player it really does have the ability to play passive rather well. If your playing an army like blood angels or another assault heavy army thanks to your vendettas you could sit back and pick him apart as he rushes towards you. Then thanks to the ability to move 24inches when moving all out you could easily rush any objectives with your veterans in vendettas. I have won more games to tell you the truth playing defensively as there is less risk involved, but still going on the offensive now and again is fun and so far ive always surprised my opponent when doing so. Hope this helps mate and cheers! :beer:
 
#13 ·
I see what you mean sonoftheemperor, but I prefer the Missile Launchers model wise, they will save me real money, and the flexability is something I have been conditioned to give higher merit towards.

@ GMAleron: I removed all the grenade launchers from the list, and they cover the cost of the ML upgrades. I still need to find points for the astropath, might have to drop the commissar like you suggested. I think I will simply get two commissar and the astropath, and swap them in and out depending on my opponents. Perfectly arriving deep strikes are more valuable sometimes then others after all. Pity, I hate the astropath model... maybe I can find some cooler looking model for a 'counts as' like an undead wizard or summat from the FB sets.
 
#14 · (Edited)
For my Astropath im using a Steel Legionary with a vox pack so you dont neccesarily need the Astropath model. The idea behind my guy is that he calls in where and when my deepstrikers need to come in. Also i can use this guy to double as my master of ordnance or Officer of the fleet.

About the missile launchers Son of the Emperor is correct that your odds are better at hitting with autocannons then with missile launchers, however i like the missile launcher just because you can use it very flexibly. But if your looking for troop killing id go with mortars. A heavy weapons platoon of 3 mortars is only 120 points and it gives you three small blast templates a turn with barrage so they ignore cover saves and cause pinning. Plus the mortar is very fluffy for airborne/air cav and would free up your infantry squads to be able to move and shoot potentially every turn.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I will model all three options and play around with both to see which I like best. Part of strategy is also in a person's style of play. I will start with the MLs because I like them model wise, then expand to autocannons and mortars as I get a feel for them. Just need to get my model composition down so I can start ordering the troops =)

P.S. Anyone know where I could get heads with berets? I figure a normal soldier sporting a beret could function as my commissar unit. Instead of the german esque officer hat. Some red berets mixed in will give my fellas more of a british or US feel to them instead of the heavily russian/german influence most IG units have.
 
#19 ·
Those heads are unfortunately unacceptable. They are wearing their berets improperly.

I found a nicer one, but it comes in the catachan command squad sprue and worse only one per sprue. Can't justify buying the catachans for two heads. <.<
 
#21 ·
Well let me clarify that I appreciate the link and the assistance!

But yes, you can wear a beret wrong. Or at least... by US Army standards. I wear a beret to work every day, and the berets those heads have are unshaped, and pretty much just plopped on their heads.

Here is the catachan one LINK!
This is a beret that someone who has no idea how to shape them looks LINK!
This is a nicely formed beret as per US Army standards. LINK!
Here are German soldiers with current berets LINK!

Now let me immediately after acknowledge that the American Military is not the only military, nor is how the US Army wears their stuff what is 'right' by any means. The British soldiers i have met wear them entirely different, which is what those models were probably replicating. LINK!

The US and German style of wearing the beret is how I am taught is proper, and how I prefer. =)

So if anyone has two spare catachan heads with berets for sale... >.>
 
#23 ·
So looking into my model options, I find I can save money by making some Stormtroopers out of Cadian Shock Troopers + ELysian Drop Troops, instead of buying god aweful metal Kasrkin. I lurve Kasrkin but I hate painting metal models.

That said, to make the flamer -> Plasma rifle conversion I found I need Marine plasma pistols. Is there a sprue or bitz anyone knows about with a good amount of plasma pistols and regular bolters?
 
#25 ·
I actually found some catachan company command heads on ebay... yay berets.

Alright guys it's the final decision time. My list is pretty much how it is going to stay. Might drop missile launchers for autocannons, might throw in an astropath and/or remove a commissar, but generally speaking I have my unit list and can now look at model options. And that is where I am stuck. Thus I require opinions!

Originally I planned on fielding Elysian Drop Troops, models from Forgeworld. This is my most expensive option, as the high number of meltas and plasma weapons I need are not really included in any of the general sets. Plus I am not the biggest fan of the Elysian helmets/heads and would most likely buy the respirator drop troop and cadian heads for my fellows (and the berets which I already ordered). Also Kasrkin are so entirely different from the Elysians that my Stormtrooper units might look out of place, unless I did some form of conversions which only makes them more expensive. They are also resin models, and just from my XV9's I have found assembling resin models are a bit more difficult than normal GW plastic. On the plus side, Elysian models do have nice veterans with shotguns which even include the demo charge I will need.

Second option are cadians. Everyone has cadians, but generally speaking cadians will be cheaper, especially since I know a guy who still has the 20 man shock trooper boxes for sale. With some conversion or green stuff I can make them more unique, and cadians generally have decent customization already. Kasrkin models will fit into the cadians easily and make it easier to get the stormtroopers on the field, even though I hate metal models. On the flip side, there are no veterans kits... I don't even know where to find the shotguns I would need. I could convert grenade launchers into decent drum shotguns I guess, or supplement my cadians with the forgeworld cadian veterans with shotguns. Also with the cadians, their heavy weapon teams and special weapons are more expensive than the Elysian ones, but do offer more options like autoguns and bolters were I to need them later.

Catachan are out of the question, I hate them.

Tallarn Desert raiders are cool but very much fail to meet the idea of airborne units.

Death Korps of Krieg kits are awesome. I love the models very much and have everything I would need. However in great coats and wearing gas masks, they would make extremely clumbsy airborne soldiers... most would die when they jumped from their valkyries as those coats would tangle them up in a heartbeat, or throw them off course. The helmets also scream dark grey at me, but I am using greens for my soldiers. The colors scheme similarity between my Tau and my Guard will let me field the guardsmen as auxiliary seamlessly in some of my cities of death games.

Final option is some blend of all of the above. Would be harder, and more likely to look hodgepodge, but if done right could make my airborne a very cool and unique company. Maybe elysian infantry units with cadian respirator heads. I was thinking about Krieg engineers with cadian respirator heads would make some nice veterans, the extra armor looks good as does the awesome shotguns the Krieg guys use. With everyone using cadian respirator heads the Kasrkin can fit right in. In anycase if anyone has any ideas I would love to hear suggestions. =)
 
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