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  1. #1
    Member Vitae's Avatar
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    1750 Pts - Salamanders Ė All comers - Competition List

    Greetings

    I have an 8 round 1750pt tournament to play against a range of quite skilled to very skilled opponents.

    Iím expecting to play:

    CSM: - Mixed Korne and Plague Marines lead by Karne and/or Sorcerer with lash
    Death Guard: - Lord, Terminators, Land Raider, CSMs and Plague Marines
    Imperial Guard: - Troops and Tanks, repeat many times
    Orks: - Gazz, Nobz, Lootas, Boyz, Boyz, Boyz, Deffkoptas and maybe a Battle Wagon
    Tau: - Fire Warriors, Hammerhead and battle suits + possibly a Kroot or 2 for colour
    Tyranids: - Swarms, Trigon/Prime, with possible Doom of M in pod, Genestealers in pod options
    Unknown: - Blood Angels / Space Wolves?
    Unknown: - Eldar / Sisters ?

    Iím planning to field a new army, so I rattled around and found a couple of battle force boxes of Space Marines and a Vulkan Heístan in the shed Ė these have formed the basis of a plan for a Salamanders Army. Looking at the list above Iím trying to go with a balanced ďall comersĒ army, based on my past experience, reading forums and fluff Iíve come up with the list below.

    I tend to get overly fluffy so Iíd appreciate some constructive criticism.

    HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He'stan 190pts

    Elite: Dreadnought with Multi-Melta, Hvy Flamer 160 pts
    In Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

    Elite: Dreadnought with Multi-Melta, Hvy Flamer 150 pts
    In Drop Pod (no Locator Beacon)

    Elite: Sternguard Vets 315 pts
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
    9 Sternguard Veteran Squad (2 x Combi-Flamer, 2 x Combi-Meltagun)
    In Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

    Troops: Tactical Squad 205 pts
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
    9 Tactical Squad (Flamer, Multi-Melta)
    Dedicated Transport: Rhino

    Troops: Tactical Squad 205 pts
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
    9 Tactical Squad (Flamer, Multi-Melta)
    Dedicated Transport: Rhino
    Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) 70 pts

    Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) 70 pts

    Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) 70 pts

    Heavy Support: Dakka Predator (Auto Cannon, Hvy Bolters) 85 pts

    Heavy Support: Vindicator 115 pts

    Heavy Support: Vindicator 115 pts

    Total Roster Cost: 1750

    My initial questions / thoughts

    I usually play Imperial Guard and Iím a little uncomfortable with only 2 x 10 SM Troop Squads. For objective based missions I could do the Combat Squad split but that makes the squads small and easy to kill off / force to flee, Iím wondering if I should take a 3rd Troop choice Ė If so what do I leave behind?

    Iím pretty happy that the Predator + 2 Vindicators gives me good support. But Iím 50 /50 as to whether it should be this or 2 x Dakka Predators + 1 Vindicator. Again as an x-Guardsman I lean towards pie plates for addressing the Plague Marine / Hoard threat - this may not be the correct instinct.

    Iím looking at the Drop Pods, Sternguards and the Land Speeders to give me the initiative and ability to put pressure on the enemy early in the game. Iíve never used either of these units before and Iím not overly comfortable with deep striking so Iím not sure on the locator beacon / deep striking land speeder combo Ė it sounds really cool though. Still dropping the locator beacons gives me 20 more points Ė itís just where to spend them thatís the question.

    As for killing Vehicles, Monstrous creatures Ė Iíve got a good amount of Melta goodness and Vulkanís re-rolls so I think Iím okay there.

    I like flame weapons against hoards but that is from the safety of a Hellhound Ė the close in flamer work is going to be a challenge to get right. Any tips here would be much appreciated.

    Based on the above Iím fairly confident I can put a good amount of pain on most of my opponents. However Iím definitely sweating the Tyranids so any help there (list, tactics or combo) would be appreciated.

    Armies (W/L/D)
    Imperial Guard: 2500pts 10/0/1, Space Marines: 2000pts 22/0/3
    CSM: 1750pts 5/0/0, DE: 1850pts 19/0/1, ORKs: 2500pts 11/1/0,

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    I would replace the sternguard with another tac squad in a drop pod. Locator beacons are only really useful for terminators. Landspeeders deepstriking arent that great and with their decent speed they can be most places by turn 2.

    Get some power weapons in the tac squads or consider some TH/SS termies as a combat unit but you would need to drop a heavy od fast slot for points.
    Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.

  4. #3
    Member Vitae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    I would replace the sternguard with another tac squad in a drop pod. Locator beacons are only really useful for terminators. Landspeeders deepstriking arent that great and with their decent speed they can be most places by turn 2.

    Get some power weapons in the tac squads or consider some TH/SS termies as a combat unit but you would need to drop a heavy od fast slot for points.
    What about dropping one of the Dreadnoughts and the other Dreadnoughts drop pod - leaving the Sternguard with the only drop pod. That way they could still arrive turn 1 where ever they would cause the most mischief.

    Then use the points to bring in a Tac Squad with Missile Launcher? (no Rhino). Depending on need they could be deployed as a full squad or as 2 x combat squads to hold objectives. I'd have a few points to spread around for the odd power weapon.

    How does that sound?
    Armies (W/L/D)
    Imperial Guard: 2500pts 10/0/1, Space Marines: 2000pts 22/0/3
    CSM: 1750pts 5/0/0, DE: 1850pts 19/0/1, ORKs: 2500pts 11/1/0,

  5. #4
    Senior Member bl00d bath76's Avatar
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    hmm i don't know whether you would like this list but it should work quite well:

    Vulkan (190 )

    Tactical marines x10 (205)
    flamer
    missle launcher
    rhino

    Tactical marines x10 (205)
    flamer
    missle launcher
    rhino

    Tactical marines x10 (205)
    flamer
    missle launcher
    rhino

    Tactical marines x10 (205)
    flamer
    missle launcher
    rhino

    Land speeder x3 (210 )
    Multi-melta x3
    heavy flamer x3

    Land speeder x3 (210 )
    Multi-melta x3
    heavy flamer x3

    Land speeder x3 (210 )
    Multi-melta x3
    heavy flamer x3

    vindicator (115)

    vindicator (115)

    Preditor (85)
    heavy bolters

    total =1750
    you have the ML's on the tactical squads to give you long range anti-tank. Also a tactic i have found works well is to, on objective missions, split into combat squads and use the fire points on the rhino to fire your flamer and a bolter. This makes your troops last for a long time while you need your other 5 man squad to babysit an objective using the range on the ML to pop rhinos and the like. Vulkan would join one of these units and again can use the top hatch to fire his heavy flamer. Land speeders should not deep strike personaly as they can't fire. with 9 they are hard to gain easy killpoints of like your previous list and can cause some serious hurt. I would go with two vindicators as they are good against everything from killing land raiders to making a mess of lots of boys. The dakka pred should be good as you will find the vindicators will soak up most anti-tank weapons leaving it free to shoot. Overall it should work but there isn't any deepstriking and you might prefer a more varied list. Hope i helped nonetheless.
    Nothing more funny than 3 inquisitors with sanctify when facing deamons. They cant do anything while you stand in front of them having a tee break.

  6. #5
    Member Vitae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    hmm i don't know whether you would like this list but it should work quite well:

    Vulkan (190 )
    Tactical marines x10, FLMR, RL, Rhino (205)
    Tactical marines x10, FLMR, RL, Rhino (205)
    Tactical marines x10, FLMR, RL, Rhino (205)
    Tactical marines x10, FLMR, RL, Rhino (205)
    Land speeder x3, MM, HFLMR (210 )
    Land speeder x3, MM, HFLMR (210 )
    Land speeder x3, MM, HFLMR (210 )
    Vindicator (115)
    Vindicator (115)
    Predator, AC, HB (85)

    Total =1750

    Bloodbath - its very similar to one of the original lists I was playing with - I liked the idea of the 3 x 3 Landspeeders, but at 1750pts I dropped them in favour of the Elite choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    you have the ML's on the tactical squads to give you long range anti-tank.
    My only question here, probably more fluff than substance, is that if I'm using Vulkan wouldn't I take the ML's over the MM's.
    In practical terms - If I"m taking the MLs for Anti-tank sure I sacrifice the range of the ML's but Vulkan gives me rerolls on the MM's and they are AP1 vs AP3.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Also a tactic i have found works well is to, on objective missions, split int o combat squads and use the fire points on the rhino to fire your flamer and a bolter. ...
    I can see that one would work - The Rhino's would give the 5 man squad some extra longevity. Probably something I could keep up my sleeve if I end up on objective missions.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Land speeders should not deep strike personally as they can't fire. with 9 they are hard to gain easy kill points of like your previous list and can cause some serious hurt.
    I had looked at the 3 x 3 Landspeeders but dropped them down. I spread them out into 3 x 1 squadrons - so that I didn't get caught with a lucky shot that immobilised a speeder (wrecking it) and then because of the 33% wounds having to risk a moral check from shooting. I hadn't thought about the kill points issue. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of taking 3 x singles or 1 squadron of 3 would be appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    I would go with two vindicators as they are good against everything from killing land raiders to making a mess of lots of boys. ...
    Thats echo's my thoughts - cheers for that

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Overall it should work but there isn't any deep striking and you might prefer a more varied list. ...
    I've never had much success with deep striking - I find I do better with all my bits on the board from turn 1. Still that may be the Guardsman in me talking

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Hope i helped nonetheless.
    Cheers man - all feedback gratefully received.
    Armies (W/L/D)
    Imperial Guard: 2500pts 10/0/1, Space Marines: 2000pts 22/0/3
    CSM: 1750pts 5/0/0, DE: 1850pts 19/0/1, ORKs: 2500pts 11/1/0,

  7. #6
    Senior Member bl00d bath76's Avatar
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    yes you wanted to know what i thought about the land speeders. Firstly i would go with squads of 2 or 3 in this case. Reason being, 1 multi-melta even at close range and being twin-linked can fluff its chance to destroy a vehicle and end up sitting there while its obliterated. This can easily be done even though vulkan helps this with his combat tactics. 2 i think is the perfect number of land speeders as you will probably hit with both, pen and with two roles on the penetration table with +1 should theroeticly make an easy kill. Reason why i suggested 3x3 is as you have 3 fast attack options and with combat tactics this type of land speeder works really well so you should try and max out on them. You also can't make a big enough dent wih a single landspeeder in infantry units when 3 land speeders against a space marine unit can cause some serious damage. (brilliant against scouts badysitting an objective) Note: remember you are a vehicle squadron so if you take a stunned result it goes down to shaken which is really useful as you can move 24inches.

    Ok about the missle launchers....firstly you have plenty of melta weapons already (especialy if you take 9 land speeders). Also one problem with melta weapons is if you get close enought to get the 2D6 armour pen once you have poped it and a unit is inside they will be unharmed and can counter-assault/charge your melta unit. Your tactical squads with the MM would sit on objectives and remain stationary therefore tanks would have to come near you for you to be able to pop them. This effectivly takes them out the game as the opponent could just stay 12 inches away with all tanks. Note:if your opponent if good at guessing distances he can park a transport 13 inchs away from your multi-melta meaning you don't get 2D6 armour pen and next turn the unit inside can disembark, move and assault your tactical marines. A missle launcher however can take out transports early in the game and does not have the limitation of range to be considered. They are also the same point cost so maybe try some games out with missle launchers then the mutli-melta and decide for yourself.

    Also there is only 3 tacical squads (a copy and paste error on my behalf)

    But thats roughly it though i wished you had an extra 30 points for combi-meltas on the sergent in the tactical squads.

    Anyway hope i gave you food for thought.
    Last edited by bl00d bath76; July 16th, 2010 at 11:44.
    Nothing more funny than 3 inquisitors with sanctify when facing deamons. They cant do anything while you stand in front of them having a tee break.

  8. #7
    Member Vitae's Avatar
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    Thanks for the work

    I've done some rejigging and the list looks like this

    HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He'stan (190 pts)
    (Forge Father with the Sternguards)

    3 Drop Pod Units – Sternguard and Dread go in on Turn 1

    Elite: Dreadnought (150 pts)
    Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer)
    Dedicated Transport = Drop Pod (Default Config)
    Can shoot MM on arrival - so that will hurt and there is a good chance it will earn its points back at that point

    Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (305 pts)
    Sternguard Sergeant (Bolt Pistol, Bolter)
    9 Sternguard Veterans (2 x Combi-Flamer, 2 x Combi-Meltagun )
    Dedicated Transport = Drop Pod (Default Config)
    Can't Assault - not that I want these guys doing that - they can shoot at rapid fire range on arrival so I'll need to drop them close to their first target the inertial guidance should help there.

    Troops: Tactical Squad (220 pts)
    1 Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun)
    9 Tactical Space Marines (Flamer, Plasma Cannon)
    Dedicated Transport = Drop Pod (Default Config)
    Tac Squad may start on the board and drop empty pod or be held back and dropped with the pod depending on mission. I’ve given them the Plasma for several reasons - #1, its more versatile than the Multi-melta, #2 I had a spare 5 points, #3 I don’t have a 3rd Multi-Melta to model on at this point

    Troops: Tactical Squad (215 pts)
    1 Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun)
    9 Tactical Space Marines (Flamer, Mulit-Melta)
    Dedicated Transport = Rhino (Default Config)
    No need to explain what the guys are for / do

    Troops: Tactical Squad (215 pts)
    1 Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun)
    9 Tactical Space Marines (Flamer, Mulit-Melta)
    Dedicated Transport = Rhino (Default Config)
    No need to explain what the guys are for / do

    Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron ( 140 pts)
    2 Land Speeders (each with Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer)
    As per discussion – have reduced number of Kill Points on offer. Gone with recommended squadron size of 2 – that also give me the extra points to get the third drop pod and put the combi-meltas on the Tac Sqd Sgts.

    Heavy Support: Predator (85 pts)
    1 Dakka Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter (sponsons))
    Support Unit – sit back - pop enemy transports - put hurt on troops

    Heavy Support: Vindicator (115 pts)
    1 Vindicator (Demolisher Cannon)
    Heavy Support Unit – slow move forward as required – using Rhino’s for cover where possible

    Heavy Support: Vindicator (115 pts)
    1 Vindicator (Demolisher Cannon)
    Heavy Support Unit – slow move forward as required – using Rhino’s for cover where possible

    Total Cost: 1750

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Vitae; July 17th, 2010 at 04:32.
    Armies (W/L/D)
    Imperial Guard: 2500pts 10/0/1, Space Marines: 2000pts 22/0/3
    CSM: 1750pts 5/0/0, DE: 1850pts 19/0/1, ORKs: 2500pts 11/1/0,

  9. #8
    Senior Member bl00d bath76's Avatar
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    Overall i think you've nailed it. Combi-meltas should work well on the tacts. Pity you don't have the points for upgrading the tactical drop pod with the str 4 ap 5 large blast ML thing (Don't have my codex with my atm) This can be anoying if you drop it in with nobody inside as it can bombard an object till something anti-tank shoots it giving your other vehicles breathing space. Also i would consider giving the plasmacannon to a marine in one of the rhinos as a multi-melta would work a lot better poded in. However depends how often you won't use the pod as a transport. Sternguard will be nasty and you should be able to make an easy kill first trun. Consider more combi-meltas? I would say 3 or 4 as it gives you the ability to pop tanks on later turns or ensure a tanks destruction. Interesting to see if this units doesn't get blasted away turn after they land though. Just a few things i had in mind to improve your list (and me being picky)

    good luck in your tournament!
    Nothing more funny than 3 inquisitors with sanctify when facing deamons. They cant do anything while you stand in front of them having a tee break.

  10. #9
    Member Vitae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Overall i think you've nailed it. ...
    Cheers man - she's been a bit of a mission.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Pity you don't have the points for upgrading the tactical drop pod with the str 4 ap 5 large blast ML thing
    Would that be the Deathwind Missile Launcher S5 AP- and 12" range. I looked at it but I didn't think it would be worth the points.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Also i would consider giving the plasmacannon to a marine in one of the rhinos ...
    Yep agreed - saw that as I was typing in the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Sternguard will be nasty ... Consider more combi-meltas?
    I'm running really tight on points - I could swap out the Combi-flamers for Combi-meltas (or what do you think about a combi plasma or two). Lets face it if the enemy get close enough that I need a flamer template I'm in rapid fire range.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Interesting to see if this units doesn't get blasted away turn after they land though.
    You are a cheerful sod.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    Just a few things i had in mind to improve your list (and me being picky).
    I have no problem with picky so long as it is well supported pickyness.

    Quote Originally Posted by bl00d bath76 View Post
    good luck in your tournament!
    Cheers - and Rep for your help.
    Armies (W/L/D)
    Imperial Guard: 2500pts 10/0/1, Space Marines: 2000pts 22/0/3
    CSM: 1750pts 5/0/0, DE: 1850pts 19/0/1, ORKs: 2500pts 11/1/0,

  11. #10
    Senior Member bl00d bath76's Avatar
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    I would change combi-flamers to combi-meltas. As you said you can rapidfire with bolter goodness and Vulkan has his heavy flamer so taking infantry would be no problem. And yeh i am a cheerful 'sod' XD
    Nothing more funny than 3 inquisitors with sanctify when facing deamons. They cant do anything while you stand in front of them having a tee break.

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