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My first list after getting back into the hobby after a long break!
Pedro Kantor 175
Sternguard Veterans( 10 ) w/6 combi meltas, drop pod 315
Dreadnought w/Multi Melta, close combat weapon, heavy flamer, drop pod 150
Tactical Squad( 10 ) w/meltagun, plasma cannon, power fist, rhino 240
Tactical Squad( 10 ) w/meltagun, plasma cannon, power fist, rhino 240
Predator w/auto cannon, sponson lascannons 120
Vindicator 115 OR Predator w/auto cannon, sponson lascannons 120
Total 1465(vin) OR 1470(pred)
I am intending to put pedro in the pod with the vets and drop them on an objective or near a hole in the enemy's line, jump out and shoot everything in sight.
The tactical squads can move around in the rhinos going where I need them, providing close and long range support.
The dreadnought I shall drop pod in to tie up weaker units in combat or maybe tank hunt if it can get close enough and to allow my vets to drop in with some breathing space.
The Vindicator(s) shall attempt to nuke the big infantry units!
The predator(s) shall be anti tank.
I'm trying to make every unit be able to soak up a bit of damage, be able to hurt big groups of weaker enemies (normal bolters), MEqs and termies (plasma cannons), Vehicles(meltas) yet still be sort of mobile (transports).
I prefer shooting to close combat so that's why I haven't included any termies.
Have I missed anything or have I picked the wrong units? Any comments are greatly appreciated! Thanks.
EDIT: Changed the list! Dropped the devs as recommended and I like the look of it a bit better now. Not about the predator/vindicator choice though...
Last edited by alifornication; August 28th, 2010 at 02:52. Reason: Changing the list
ur list is a bit small. also ur drop pod is by it self unsupported unless u drop it 13'' plus inches away from the enemy the contents will die unless u support with the rhinos because the contents r too valuable too die early in the game.try buying a rhino 4 the sternsquad.
how many men in the dev squad???also y a powerfist/meltabombs in the dev squad. why meltabombs with a powerfist???w/ the extra pts from the MB's and powerfist which is 40 pts u should be able to buy 2 lascannons
the dred doesnt have enough mobility to keep up w/ the rhinos so will arrive a few turns later
also the guns are varied unless u combat squad
Last edited by dusk hamster; August 27th, 2010 at 13:15.
Sorry to be a pain, but I'd have to go against or in a different direction to everything Dusk Hamster just said.
The list seems small, yes, but its an Armour Heavy list, which I think is quite well written (except for one unit; touch on that in a mo),
The Dread might have little mobility, but its not designed to be a fast moving unit - and theres nothing stopping it running for a turn or two - if he pops one heavy tank with a Multi-Melta shot, Mr. Dread has paid his points back. Besides - Tact Squads don't take Rhinos to speed forward and pewpew, they use it in order to control the battlefield by getting themselves where they need to be - which in most cases, is at the correct range to be dropping Plasmacannons or Missiles on more dangerous units, or on an objective (which isn't the 100% priority till turn 4 at the earliest - just keep their general position in mind so they're able to).
As for Podding the Vets, yes its a good idea, but not on their own - if you find points from my next suggestion, put the Dread in a pod - this way you can stick him down turn one in order to remove or engage the most dangerous units for the sternguard; you don't lose a chunk of your army as quickly and (more importantly) you don't lose a scoring unit yet they're still allowed to fulfill their potential.
Finally, rather than making changes to the Dev Squad, I'd remove it entirely - they're too expensive to justify using; if you want some long ranged or mobile weaponry, take Attack Bike Squads with Multi-Meltas or Land Speeders with Missiles+Multi-Melta. Or you can take a couple of AC+2xLC Predator - probably the best option here. (Even GW agree they're too expensive, see the BA book for a more reasonable points cost).
Finally a note on your strategy at the bottom of your post; I wouldn't be using a Vindicator as a tank hunter - if it scatters off the target ever so slightly, you're only hitting at Str 5; Tank Hunting is for Lascannons and MM's; not Demolishers unfortunately.
I have the fist and bombs in the dev squad in case anything breaks through. The fist is for characters or high toughness and the bombs for vehicles. I have this in the devs because I had some spare points and the tac squads have them so they can deal with almost everything they come across (hopefully).
I'm not too sure what you would have me do with the two lascannons as the tac squads have plasma cannons which are better for infantry and the meltas for vehicles, the devs are maxed out and the vets don't need them.[/QUOTE]
Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate this
I think what he meant by "the guns are varied" is that you have an assault weapon and a heavy weapon in each, although as I said (and sorry to sound like I'm being mean, because I'm trying to be constructive atleast towards this list), Dusk doesn't seem like he is using his tactical squads to maximum effect, based on his comments (or his Devs, because if a person were to take Dev's, I think 10 men with a Powerfist is probably the best way to go - atleast that way they're not completely defenseless against a large infantry unit - particularly Orks).
Couple up a rhino with each vindicator and place each new *squadron* 8-18" apart (close enough to support each other but not to get caught in a small group.
I'd put the dred in the middle to help vindies from getting charged and the rhinos behind the vindies (or vica versa if your against a shooting army, just remember to pop smoke). Then slowly advance. The rhinos can peel off or rush forwards (or even drive backwards) if necessary. Use the drop pod as a distraction/block line of site. Or, if against a combat army, walk the sternguard with the vindicators and use the pod to pester any shooting units they have.
Hope this helps
(comments in red).
EDIT: sorry, just noticed you don't like bikes or speeders (not sure why as they're awesome). In that case I'd drop the same things (kantor and devs) and take another vindicator and a tactical squad in rhino (although you'll be lacking melta so keep the melta on your dread). If you don't want the third tactical squad take a third vindicator and perhaps a (sniper) scout squad?
Oh and when editing, click go advanced and then save, then it works.
Last edited by Sancraer; August 27th, 2010 at 23:42.
Thank you Sancraer. Just a few things:
I was using kantor more for his combat tactics rule than the other one plus he will be the powerfist guy in the vet squad. I have never used a librarian so I'm not sure how to make the best of their powers and if I take a librarian epistolary and put a powerfist in the sternguard then that costs the same as kantor.
I'll probably drop the meltabombs and take combi meltas.
I don't have enough points to take a (full) tac squad and a vindicator if I drop the devs and I'm not too fond of fielding half squads for morale purposes. I was thinking of taking two predators (AC + 2LC) as humaneater suggested, or perhaps the 2nd vindicator and a predator as that will give a good mix of anti infantry and anti armour.
Also about the bikes, rules wise I think they are great but I don't like the models for some reason...
I'm going to edit my list now so if you could take another look that would be brilliant!
Personally I would run a 2nd vindicator just for its versatility, but I'll give you the pros and cons of both
Versatile (S10 Ap2 Ordnance kills anything). Also I just worked out that 11/18 times the shot will scatter no more than 2 inches so 2/3s(ish) of the time you'll hit an average sized vehicle)
Can move and fire all weapons
Pyschological factor, these things are scary, expecially when you have more than one
Easy to shut down: AV13,11,10 isn't the strongest, couple that with the fact that any roll but a 4 on the vehicle damage chart shuts down the cannon for at least one turn, and even the 4 messes up your firing arcs)
Big Target, it'll get shot a lot, and in this list it woudn't be taking the fire for something else
Short (comparatively) range, you have to move towards the enemy to fire sometimes (see Tau)
Lots of AT firepower, and can hurt heavy infantry to (although the autocannon is less suitable here)
Less susceptible to a bad roll for shooting (more guns=more shots=more chances not to fail)
Can't move and fire all weapons (so gets hit automatically in combat) (BIG PROBLEM, see outflankers)
Can be destroyed as easily as a vindicator, and the only result thats better for you on the vehicle damage chart is N3, as the others still stop you shooting
In summary, the vindicator is more mobile and versatile than the predator (something my lists focus on), but the predator packs more of a punch. The predator would opperate similar to the devesator squad but would be more point efficient.
Dreadnought with 2 TL Autocannons (or one TL autocannon and one assualt cannon).
Kills all transports
Can move and fire
If you give it the assualt cannon it can rend stuff and gets more shots (this adds versatility, although some of the assualt cannons shots will miss)
Statistacilly shoudn't miss many shots at all (chance of a TL Bs4 shot hitting is 8/9)
Can charge and hold up units, if it can't shoot
Modelling, the autocannons aren't in the box. A quad-gun from the Aegis Defence line quickly solves this though (really easy conversion)
AV12 front armour, worse than the other two
You can see why the dreadnought is a common sight at tournaments, its got a lot less cons than the other two. In fact, if you do pros and cons our heavy support slots are actually our weakest ones.
I'm not going to decide for you as its your list and it should suit your playstyle.
If you are still undecided, I suggest proxying the different options and seeing which ones fill the niche the best.
Good luck (and please be sure to inform me which option you choose, if this thread is old by then PM me).
P.s. I have some seen some interesting modelling ideas on bikes, making them look pretty cool (some change them completely but others are good. I can't remember whether they're a conversion or the older models but the bikes in the mentors army in the apocalypse book are acutally tricycles (2 wheels at the back, one at the front) and the attack bikes look like quad-bikes). Landspeeders can look awesome if they're painted nicely (or based nicely), especially the typhoon variant. But I want pester you about them, especially after I remembered about the dreadnought.
p.s.s. kantor makes sense I guess (though if you could scrape 25pts (not that I suggest you do) lysander is awesome for sternguard (bolter drill + 4 wounds of 3+ invulnerable) and still gives army-wide stubborn. However you lose a third scoring unit, if you get bored with the list proxy him for fun).
Thanks again! The dreadnought conversion sounds pretty cool. Good thing I have a spare! I think I'll play a few games, try each of them out and see what works and what I like. I'll definitely get back to you! I won't able to start play for another 2-3 weeks. How long is it before a thread is considered old?
When the topic has been finished/fully covered (such as here) or at tops about a week and a half, but generally less than that. (its probably int the forum rules for the exact length, embarassingly I can't seem to find them at the moment so can't link it).
Just pm me, its easier, no worries though.