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-Jump pack & Hand Flamer
-Fear of darkness and Shield of Sanguinus
Bike Squad (8 plus attack bike)
-Sergeant with Power Fist & Combi Flamer
-Heavy Bolter attack bike
-Multi Melta and Heavy Flamer
-Multi Melta and Heavy Flamer
3 Sanguinary Priests
-Meltagun and Heavy Flamer
-Meltagun and Heavy Flamer
-Twin linked heavy flamer and powerfist/heavy flamer
I'm pretty sure that how the list is supposed to function is obvious enough. The librarian and assault squads have been at the core of all the BA lists I've been trying (I'm open to changing that around, but I don't run named HQs, tempting as Mephiston the lord of Noobslaying might be). I haven't tried using this particular list yet, and I'm just wondering if people think the combination of fast moving stuff and drop dreds is likely to be effective.
Last edited by Fnord; September 6th, 2010 at 07:29.
Ok. We will talk about the centre of any army. The troops; the scoring units; heart of any army. The rest outside the troops selection is much more complicated and varied.
I would recommend at least 5 scoring units in 2k points. Because there is always someone ready to just concentrate on your shoots and literally guarantee a draw, just because he killed your troops (it doesn't matter if you kill his army down to a man, the thing is he played smartly, but taking out your game winning troops first). Scoring units are more important than anything else in the game because 2/3 of the missions revolve around it.
I would stick with all melta weapons for your assault squads, because plasma is hazardous and prevents you from assaulting and if you can flame it, you can assault it nearly all the time. Personally, i prefer thunder hammers over power fists to give me an edge against vehicles, walkers and MCs. It can save you 3-4 marines against just one MC.
The hq, the librarian will probably be shooting his fear of darkness most the time or some other spell and like i said earlier, if he can flame he can assault. especially since it's a hand flamer.
I can see what your trying to do with your fast attack, but land speeders are fragile and attack bikes provide more range and close combat help. Plus if you really need to go in with a heavy flamer then your doing something wrong. because your opponent can just bait your land speeders into their heavy weapons line of fire. Deep strikes will fry those speeders too, gaining auto kill points. The bikes are make for close combat literally and you want one unit to provide fire support, while the other goes in. Well for the close combat element your assault squads and dreadnoughts should have it covered. Attack bikes are much better, because you lack long range firepower and even mid ranged firepower. Again you have baiting issues.
Attack bikes provide better support due to longer ranged weapons and a squad of two is sufficient to wipe out 10 guants, which is usually enough to win the fight unless their is a brood of 30. Which is when your assault squads come in. Plus a brood of 30 shouldn't really be able to snipe out a unit of 2 attack bikes or 3 attack bikes when you have lots of 10 man squads etc.
Now the elites, the priests are good. However, the furioso's don't work well. Essentially their dreadnoughts with a bit more killy power. or a lot more, but the enemy can just run away from them. Plus they don't have fleet and can't fly. If you want to fly in that close to get off a melta shoot, then good luck trying to get within 6 inches, because it's just one shot and if you really want to rely on it, then your literally putting your game down to these units ( which will either tip the game in your favour for a turn or two or you will lose both the dreadnought to rear armour fire and the drop pod )
I would suggest dropping the dreadnoughts for more assault squads.
The heavy support dreadnought has the same problems as your furioso and it have 8 inch flamers which are even worse. and if you want to flush out snipers and units in cover. Then you will probably try to land in the heart of the enemy where the opponent will place them, making your dreadnought and pod easy targets with rear armour etc.
So now that we have talked about your list, i guess you want to know what replacements i am suggesting.
I would suggest another librarian who can help cover your army with more anti-psyker protection.
More mid ranged fire power like devastators or attack bikes with multi meltas (i would personally go for the bikes as they have more maneuverability)
More scoring units, another assault squad with melta weapons and a thunder hammer and a scouts squad with snipers, cloaks and a missile launcher to objective sit.
What am i suggesting you take off? All the dreadnoughts and the land speeders and the bikes currently in that list. We can discuss about the librarian's powers later.
I hope my c&c has been helpful, productive and useful. If you think i came across too harshly or didn't explain myself clear or well enough or anything else. Then please don't hesitate to tell me, because i am still learning about how i can provide the most friendly and constructive advice.
I just lost what i wrote and i don't think i have the spirit to do so again, so i will produce a short and sweet version.
I never said five ten man assault squads, i said five scoring units. A scout unit can fill one.
I never said you were fielding plasma, i was saying it if you were wondering. Your melta is all short ranged bar two. Jump packs won't get your everywhere and they can't be everywhere at once.
Flying flamers are appealing, terminators with a priest are appealing, a leman russ with five plasma cannons are appealing. Get the point?
If you need heavy flamers, especially just a few, then your relying on them to get into firing lines and assault lines without knowing the amount of trouble that your putting yourself into. Flamers on imperial guard tanks are an exception, because they are guard.
Dreadnoughts have little or no place in the competitive lists, the most competitive lists don't have time for them, they are better spent on other things. I like dreadnought's though, the history, the model and the looks, even the stats to some point. However, if you want competitive, then leave them at home.
The points were literally a summary for the detailed version.
If you want a game and your are not down south in the UK, then i would be glad you show you what i mean .
Thanks for the comments Senor Nova. Sadly I'm in Australia so I can't take you up on the offer of a game. That said, I'm feeling a language/communication barrier; I can't actually understand much of what was said in your last two posts. I'm sure good points were made, but the only thing I can get out of them solidly is that you don't think dreddies are worth fielding.