<2000 2000 point IG mechanized list - Feedback please! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Senior Member Nitrokitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Killeen, TX
    Age
    30
    Posts
    446
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    63 (x1)

    2000 point IG mechanized list - Feedback please!

    Here's a list I've put together that I've had some moderate success with against the players in my area, but I thought I'd get some feedback. Everything has default equipment unless otherwise noted. I'm fairly new to the game, I've been playing for about two months.

    HQ:
    Company Command Squad (in Chimera): 205 points
    -3 Sniper Rifles (removed), Vox Caster (removed), 4 Meltaguns, Astropath, Officer of the Fleet

    *Notes: I play a lot of reserve-dependent armies, like Nids and Tau, so I usually take the Officer. I'll sometimes swap him out for a Master of Ordinance against swarm armies for an extra pie plate to toss. I also have two Techpriests and 3 Servitors, 1 with a heavy bolter and 1 with a multimelta. I like the repair feature, but for the same price, I can have a fully kitted out veteran squad. I also have a Commissar model that I ran as a Lord Commissar for a while, but I found that Vox Casters were generally sufficient as far as orders went, and too often, he kept squads in close combat longer than I liked. Mostly when a squad gets assaulted, I want it to die off fast so I can shoot at them again. I decided the points were better served elsewhere.

    Elites:
    Stormtroopers x5: 105 points
    -2 Meltaguns, Sgt. with Power Weapon (removed)
    Stormtroopers x5: 105 points
    -2 Meltaguns, Sgt. with Power Weapon (removed)

    *Notes: I usually deep strike them both in using Airborne Assault. I have 7 extra stormtrooper models, including 1 grenade launcher, 1 flamer, and 1 plasma gun.

    Fast Attack:
    Armored Sentinels x2: 120 points
    -Autocannon x2
    Vendetta Gunship: 130 points
    -Heavy Bolter sponsons (removed)
    Hellhound: 130 points
    -Heavy Flamer

    *Notes: I have everything here magnetized, so I can swap out the weapons at will. More and more, I've found myself placing autocannons on the Sentinels and using them as transport/skimmer poppers. Sometimes I might put a plasma cannon or two on them if I'm facing Terminators or the equivalent. I'll sometimes swap out the Bane Wolf for a Hellhound, like when I'm facing orcs, but most of the time it's a Bane Wolf.

    Troops:
    Infantry Platoon: 190 points
    -Platoon Command Squad: 3 Grenade Launchers, Vox Caster (removed)
    -Infantry Squad: Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster, Autocannon (HWT)
    -Infantry Squad: Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster, Autocannon (HWT)
    -Heavy Weapon Squad: 3 Lascannons
    Veteran Squad (in Vendetta): 100 points
    -3 Meltaguns
    Veteran Squad (in Chimera): 155 points
    -3 Meltaguns
    Veteran Squad (in Chimera): 155 points
    -3 Meltaguns

    *Notes: In case you hadn't noticed, I like autocannons. They're versatile enough to shoot at just about anything except heavy armor (which I have my tanks, Vendetta, and chimeltas for), easy on the points, and long ranged. Most of my special weapon troops are magnetized, as well as my Chimeras and heavy weapons teams.

    Heavy Support:
    Leman Russ: 165 points
    -Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Bolter sponsons (removed)
    Leman Russ: 165 points
    -Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Bolter sponsons (removed)
    Leman Russ: 170 points
    -Demolisher Cannon, Lascannon, Bolter sponsons (removed)

    *Notes: I got my Russes at a consignment sale dirt cheap. The only downside was they came already assembled without any of the other bits. So if I want to swap the weapons out, then I have to either proxy it (which I do for my Vanquisher, he has a heavy stubber on top to mark him as different) or take a knife to them, which I'm not really comfortable doing. Besides, the battle cannons have been pretty good to me so far, but I'm open to suggestions.

    TOTAL: 2000 points

    Notes about theme: I'm mostly going for a regular man's army. That means (if at all possible) no unique characters, and no abhumans. Just a line of the Emperor's finest and their friends with the really big guns. I just play with my friends and people I meet at the local game store, I'm not that interested in tournaments at the moment. I play against a fairly diverse set of armies, including Tau, Chaos, Tyranids, other IG players, Space Marines, Eldar, Grey Knights, and Orks. I usually play 2000 points, but I wouldn't mind some advice about where to drop 500 points from this list for some smaller games. I don't mind tweaking my list a bit here and there to suit the army I'm facing, usually doing weapon swaps, but I like having a list that can pretty much stand on its own without having to constantly reorganize depending on who you're playing. I'm fairly happy with all the models I currently have, I may go out and buy more if the advice is overwhelming, but not in most cases. For example, I've had a lot of people try to sell me on a Basilisk squadron, but I'm really not interested in going out and buying 3 new vehicles and completely redo my list to fit them in.

    Strategy: I like to use my Infantry Platoon, along with my company commander, as a static firebase to shoot at stuff with autocannons and sniper rifles. My veterans act as my offense, rolling around melta-ing things in the face. Sometimes I'll put two heavy flamers on one chimera, and give the vets inside two flamers plus a heavy instead of the meltas. That's 5 templates aimed at something. Nasty against swarms.

    I usually deep strike my melta stormtroopers near the biggest concentration of armor I can, then melta as much as possible before they die. I've debated whether I wanted to run them as a full squad, and eventually decided not to. Whenever they appear, my opponent usually focuses on them, so they rarely last long. While the extra bodies are nice as meatshields for the meltas, it costs a lot of points, and most of the time they only have to get one thing to make up their points in turn this way. My other stormtrooper squad usually goes Marine hunting or tarpits something.

    My Sentinels usually either shoot at transports, or assault anything without power fists to keep them tarpitted. My Vendetta usually hangs around at the rear shooting at tanks until turn 4 or 5, then boosts over to an objective and dumps the vets. In Annihilation games, I usually scout move forward, drop the vets in a good position, then zoom back. In those games, I may switch the grenade launcher squad into a Chimera and put a melta squad in the Vendetta. The Bane Wolf goes straight for the largest pocket of heavy infantry it can find. I'll sometimes run it as a Hellhound and use it as a bodyguard for my troop firebase, especially against my Tau friend, who likes to infiltrate his Kroot right next to them.

    My tanks do what tanks do, shoot stuff and block line of sight. Not the most imaginative tactics, but effective. I like the Battle Cannons since they can either shoot at armor (yay ordinance) or blow up whole squads. I have my "Vanquisher" as a dedicated tank hunter, but the low BS is making me consider switching it back to the BC. I'm also considering proxying him as a Demolisher and see how that goes. I think someone did the math and found that statistically speaking, shooting at a tank with an ordinance cannon using the scatter dice is about the same as shooting at it directly, and the ordinance weapon can also be used effectively on troops as well as sometimes hitting something else when it scatters. Can anyone confirm this?

    I know that's a lot of stuff to consider, and I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through all that and offer advice.

    Last edited by Nitrokitty; September 18th, 2010 at 08:04.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,474
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    204 (x5)

    Note: Technically, this isn't a Mechanized list. It's only partially Mech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrokitty View Post
    HQ:
    Company Command Squad: 100 points
    - 3 Sniper Rifles, Vox Caster, Officer of the Fleet
    Not good. Try one of these instead:

    205 - CCS w/4 x Melta, Astropath, Fleet Officer, Chimera (Hull Flamer) For leading the charge - my preferred
    225 - CCS w/4 x Plasma, Astropath, Fleet Officer, Chimera (Hull Flamer) For protecting the rear

    Sniper Rifles really aren't very good, as this article I wrote explains:

    the back 40k: Why Snipers Aren't Competitive

    Elites:
    Stormtroopers x5: 115 points
    -2 Meltaguns, Sgt. with Power Weapon
    Stormtroopers x10: 175 points
    -Sgt. with Power Weapon
    Stormies are really only competitive in 2 builds.

    105 - 5 Stormtroopers w/2 x Melta - For deep-striking
    160 - 5 Stormtroopers w/2 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Flamer) - For scout-striking land raiders or outflanking.

    Fast Attack:
    Armored Sentinels x2: 120 points
    -Autocannon x2
    Try 3 Scout Sentinels w/Autocannons for the same points. Or even better... Take the bolters off of your Vendetta and buy another bird.

    Vendetta Gunship: 140 points
    -Heavy Bolter sponsons
    Solid. But I can usually find a better use for the extra 10 points. He needs a friend also.

    Bane Wolf: 130 points
    -Heavy Bolter
    I find that the extra range of a Hellhound more than makes up for the AP3 of the Bane Wolf. Even when fighting Marines.

    I also find the idea of tailoring a list for a particular opponent to be poor sportsmanship (and a crutch). I'll play my standard all-comers list versus any opponent. It's how you get better.

    Troops:
    Infantry Platoon: 190 points
    -Platoon Command Squad: 3 Grenade Launchers, Vox Caster
    -Infantry Squad: Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster, Autocannon (HWT)
    -Infantry Squad: Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster, Autocannon (HWT)
    -Heavy Weapon Squad: 3 Autocannons
    Drop the Voxes and upgrade the Autocannons in the Heavy Weapons squad to Lascannons. With the new Nids out, you need a 50/50 mix.

    But... If you truely want an armored company, you need to drop the platoon (or at least get them all Chimeras).

    Veteran Squad (in Vendetta): 85 points
    -3 Grenade Launchers
    Give them meltas so they can scout-strike enemy armor on turn 1. Meltas also let you deploy them on foot to block Ork Battlewagons and other tank shockers. Nobody want to take an automatic melta hit in a Death or Glory move.

    Veteran Squad (in Chimera): 155 points
    -3 Meltaguns
    Veteran Squad (in Chimera): 155 points
    -3 Meltaguns
    Cool, but you need more of these. You also need to make sure you put Heavy Flamers on the hulls of all of your vehicles. Russes can have lascannons if you have the extra points to spend.

    *Notes: In case you hadn't noticed, I like autocannons. They're versatile enough to shoot at just about anything except heavy armor (which I have my tanks, Vendetta, and chimeltas for), easy on the points, and long ranged. Most of my special weapon troops are magnetized, as well as my Chimeras and heavy weapons teams.
    I'll say it again. Lascannons are NOT heavy armor killers. You shouldn't be shooting them at AV13 or AV14 and expect to do much of anything. Here's a comparison of odds:

    the back 40k: What Are The Odds?

    The only reason to take Lascannons at all is because you need them to wound Tyrannid MCs at range. That's it.

    Heavy Support:
    Leman Russ: 185 points
    -Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Bolter sponsons
    Leman Russ: 185 points
    -Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Bolter sponsons
    Leman Russ: 190 points
    -Vanquisher Cannon, Lascannon, Bolter sponsons
    1) Drop the sponsons, they'll kill your tank. See the following article:

    the back 40k: Get Your Armor Up Front And Say Hello! (Re-Written)

    2) Vanquishers are garbage. Their cannon is basically a single long range BS3 melta. It only hits half of the time and the vehicle damage chart is basically a semi-invulnerable 3+ save. Giving you only a 10-12% chance of killing AV14. If you want a good light armor killer, take an Exterminator or a couple of Hydras. If you want a heavy armor killer, take more Chimeltas.

    I suggest you replace this with a Demolisher.

    Notes about theme: I'm mostly going for a regular man's army. That means (if at all possible) no unique characters, and no abhumans. Just a line of the Emperor's finest and their friends with the really big guns.
    That's very doable. The only character I ever take is Marbo, and he's not essential.
    Come visit my blog at: www.warstrike.org

  4. #3
    Senior Member Nitrokitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Killeen, TX
    Age
    30
    Posts
    446
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    63 (x1)

    Good advice, but that's a lot of stuff I'm really not in a hurry to rush out and buy right now. Also keep in mind that I don't play competitively, just with my friends, so making it tournament-level is not a requirement. I might be inclined to pick up another Chimera or two, but that's my limit. I do like the advice about the sponsons, though, it actually comes as a bit of a relief that I can get rid of them. That's quite a bit of points freed up. I've revised the list a bit taking your advice and my budget into account. Let me know how that looks. The new list just assumes I buy another Chimera.
    Last edited by Nitrokitty; September 18th, 2010 at 07:58.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Nitrokitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Killeen, TX
    Age
    30
    Posts
    446
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    63 (x1)

    So SandWyrm, I took some of your advice, and tested out your tank strategies against a Tau player. I gotta say, it worked spectacularly. I got aggressive with all my vehicles and they all got completely wasted by his broadsides and railguns. The reason I say it worked spectacularly is that he got too defensive. Sure, all my armor got wasted, but he didn't assault with his Kroot when he should have, he kept his Crisis suits back to defend his lines instead of dropping them into my troops to wreck havoc, and kept using his markerlights and missile locks to take out my tanks instead of trying to dislodge my troops from objectives. End result: 3 objectives for me, 1 for him, 1 contested. I think this will work even better when I have two more chimeltas to throw at him.

    The real stars of the fight were my stormtroopers. I cut them down to 5 man squads and put meltas in them, then dropped them near his armor. Both his Hammerhead and Skyray instantly disappeared, and then my squad was waiting to pop his Devilfish as soon as it came out from reserve. That freaked him out so badly that he spent several turns dedicating shots to wiping them out, shots that could have done some damage to things that actually threatened objectives. In the end, they both easily killed enough things to make up their points, and all the wasted shots in their direction was just icing on the cake.

    I have to say, the take away message from all this is that psychological tactics WORK. I was a bit skeptical of the idea that using tanks and big distracty things to throw your opponent off balance would work, but having seen it in action, I'm a convert. I found myself thinking to myself "please shoot at my stormies, please shoot at my stormies," because after they'd destroyed any armor in their vicinity, the closest things to them were a full squad of Kroot plus Hounds, which they couldn't really do enough damage to, and his Broadsides and Pathfinders, which were way up in the top of a building that would have taken me too long to slog to in order to attack. There wasn't really a whole lot more they could do at that point, but he wasted resources to take them out anyways. He went after those stormies with a vengeance, and he didn't notice my PCS sneaking up on an objective until it was too late. That ended up being the contested objective that otherwise would have gone to him.

    Also: you scoffed a bit at my Sentinels, but I'm still not convinced to give them up. They've worked well in every game I've used them in, even if only as target saturation. I've had them contest objectives, tarpit assault troops, draw fire from more important stuff, block movement, grant cover saves to my more important vehicles, and just generally made nuisances of themselves. I've yet to regret putting them in my army.
    Last edited by Nitrokitty; September 21st, 2010 at 21:27.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,474
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    204 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrokitty View Post
    So SandWyrm, I took some of your advice, and tested out your tank strategies against a Tau player. I gotta say, it worked spectacularly. I got aggressive with all my vehicles and they all got completely wasted by his broadsides and railguns. The reason I say it worked spectacularly is that he got too defensive. Sure, all my armor got wasted, but he didn't assault with his Kroot when he should have, he kept his Crisis suits back to defend his lines instead of dropping them into my troops to wreck havoc, and kept using his markerlights and missile locks to take out my tanks instead of trying to dislodge my troops from objectives. End result: 3 objectives for me, 1 for him, 1 contested. I think this will work even better when I have two more chimeltas to throw at him.
    Hehe. You have learned much young one. Welcome to 5th Edition 40K.

    I've won many a game without a single tank left. I've also won games without killing much of anything. Like this one:

    the back 40k: How I Won A Battle Without Killing Anything

    Once you realize how important the movement phase of the game is, you'll never sit still again.

    The real stars of the fight were my stormtroopers. I cut them down to 5 man squads and put meltas in them, then dropped them near his armor. Both his Hammerhead and Skyray instantly disappeared, and then my squad was waiting to pop his Devilfish as soon as it came out from reserve. That freaked him out so badly that he spent several turns dedicating shots to wiping them out, shots that could have done some damage to things that actually threatened objectives. In the end, they both easily killed enough things to make up their points, and all the wasted shots in their direction was just icing on the cake.
    Tau HATE it when you get close to them.

    Dropped Stormies won't always kill stuff. But like Marbo, they'll always scare people silly. Other units that really scare people are Demolishers and Hellhounds. Shoot lascannons at my Demolisher? Yes please! Just don't shoot at the Chimeras that are coming for your throat.

    I have to say, the take away message from all this is that psychological tactics WORK. I was a bit skeptical of the idea that using tanks and big distracty things to throw your opponent off balance would work, but having seen it in action, I'm a convert.
    Good players don't get as flustered as your friend. But even good players will make mistakes if you can disrupt their plans. Forcing choices (ANY choice) knocks them out of their well-practiced comfort zone and forces them to make conscious decisions on the fly. It's one reason I put multi-meltas on my Hounds. The gun isn't uber, but the time my opponent spends deciding which gun to take off is time he's not spending thinking about his overall strategy.

    I found myself thinking to myself "please shoot at my stormies, please shoot at my stormies," because after they'd destroyed any armor in their vicinity, the closest things to them were a full squad of Kroot plus Hounds, which they couldn't really do enough damage to, and his Broadsides and Pathfinders, which were way up in the top of a building that would have taken me too long to slog to in order to attack.
    Stormies are suprisingly decent at close-combat since they get an extra pistol attack. Against Tau, I'd be charging them in. Especially if you can force him to consolidate off of an objective.

    Also: you scoffed a bit at my Sentinels, but I'm still not convinced to give them up.
    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Sentinels. But the Armored ones are pretty expensive. Gunlines need AV12 blockers, but mobile Mech lists benefit from the extra shots and the Move Through Cover rules that the scout type gets for the same points.

    Like everything, their worth depends on the size of the game. I take them in lists under 1500 pts. But in the 1500 to 2000 space, Vendettas are just too good to ignore.
    Come visit my blog at: www.warstrike.org

  7. #6
    Senior Member Nitrokitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Killeen, TX
    Age
    30
    Posts
    446
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    63 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by SandWyrm View Post
    Tau HATE it when you get close to them.
    Good players don't get as flustered as your friend. But even good players will make mistakes if you can disrupt their plans. Forcing choices (ANY choice) knocks them out of their well-practiced comfort zone and forces them to make conscious decisions on the fly. It's one reason I put multi-meltas on my Hounds. The gun isn't uber, but the time my opponent spends deciding which gun to take off is time he's not spending thinking about his overall strategy.
    Don't get me wrong, he's a really good player. But he did make a couple of key mistakes. One was infiltrating an unsupported squad of Kroot near an objective, but right in the field of fire of one of my major gunlines. There was an area of forest near the objective, so he camped in that and took potshots at me, hoping the 3+ cover save would hold them until the last turn, when he could pop out and grab the objective. Unfortunately, I had my CCS use Fire on my Target! a lot, which whittled his troops down pretty quick. By the time he realized that he needed to get out there and assault me, it was too late. If he'd assaulted with them from the beginning, he could have disrupted my gunline and maybe taken out a squad before they went down. He also tried to drop one Crisis team in near my troops, but I had them spread out in a big blob, and he ended up mishaping and crashing. It was the flamer team too, so they could have done some damage.

    Stormies are suprisingly decent at close-combat since they get an extra pistol attack. Against Tau, I'd be charging them in. Especially if you can force him to consolidate off of an objective.
    True, and I've used my Stormies as tarpits for units like his Broadsides before, but at that point in the game, the best they could have done was speedbumped his Kroot. It might have made a difference, but I had a lot more units on the table that were a bigger threat that he wasn't shooting at.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Sentinels. But the Armored ones are pretty expensive. Gunlines need AV12 blockers, but mobile Mech lists benefit from the extra shots and the Move Through Cover rules that the scout type gets for the same points.
    Like everything, their worth depends on the size of the game. I take them in lists under 1500 pts. But in the 1500 to 2000 space, Vendettas are just too good to ignore.
    Basically, what it comes down to is this: I like using my Sentinels to assault and tarpit things, and armored Sentinels are way better at it due to their FAV 12 and the lack of open topped. The other factor is that I only own two Sentinels. I own one Vendetta. Models are expensive =P.

  8. #7
    LO Zealot cKerensky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,677
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    146 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrokitty View Post
    Basically, what it comes down to is this: I like using my Sentinels to assault and tarpit things, and armored Sentinels are way better at it due to their FAV 12 and the lack of open topped. The other factor is that I only own two Sentinels. I own one Vendetta. Models are expensive =P.
    Indeed, models are expensive.

    The way I see it, even with 3 scout sentinels can, in a pinch, be used to assault, and it's that very factor that people assume you aren't going to assault with them that makes them useful. It's got the "On paper" thing going against it. AV12, hell yes the Armoured Sentinel looks better, but remember that Scout Sentinels can tie up units in the back row after discharging their weapons by virtue of outflanking. They won't live as long in assault, but, you'll get far-far more use out of it, and primarily, it increases your tactical flexibility which is key.

    Plus the thought of 3 outflanking autocannons is usually enough to cause most people to flinch and play more conservatively. I guess the whole idea is you lose a little ability (tarpitting), and gain a bunch of big bonuses: Side/rear armour autocannon shots, Hunter Killer missile shots (if you go that route), and somewhat worse of a tarpit ability, and that's not even mentioning the points you save.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts