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My Space Marine Codex and Battleforce arrived to day, and I'm very pleased to have some actual rules for my Black Reach Marines (who are incidentally very pleased that they now know no fear and can combat squad, but I digress...)
I'm looking to build up some kind of list, mainly so I know how to build my troops. My university gaming club is very friendly so I can proxy a few things, but I'd rather use units I have if I can (so no 6 Dreadnoughts disguised as plastic cups please!)
Here's the troops you get between the two boxes if you're unfamiliar:
25 Tactical Marines
5 Assault Marines
(These marines share 2 Flamers, 1 Melta, 1 Plasmagun, 2 Missile Launchers, 1 Heavy Bolter, 2 Power Weapons, a Powerfist and some Plasma Pistols)
5 Terminators (4Fist+SB, 1 PSword+SB)
1 Dreadnought (Multimelta+SB)
1 Captain (PSword + Bolter)
Having looked through the Codex, here's my (long and rambling collection of) thoughts:
Captain, to probably hang out with a Tactical Squad. Giving him a Relic Blade and Storm Bolter would keep him cheep but much stronger than his base stats (and it's all on the model anyway)
Terminators, I liked using these in my practice games so far. Not sure what special weapon to give them but I'm thinking they could deep strike and Assault Cannon/Storm Bolter things and a few would live to powerfist stuff. Maybe a chainfist for vehicles? I think they'd have great synergy with a locator pod dreadnought.
I'd like my Dreadnought to have a MM/HF setup with drop pod and locator beacon. When I tried walking him around he got killed very easily: with a pod he can drop on top of a guard tank squadron or ork squad or pathfinders in cover and destroy something vital very easily. With the beacon too, I could quickly have my terminators in his rear too doing terrible things...
I have a small squad of Assault Marines... maybe with a Flamer they could hang around important things and counter charge something? I'm wondering if people rate Assault marines for this; I can always just make them Tac Marines...I'd love some Landspeeders but have none :( This is a big weakness, barely any antitank in my army.
This is where I'm stuck...the options list is so easy to go crazy on. My Black Reach guys are already Flamer+ML, but the Sargeant is just Chainsword and Bolt Pistol... And the other marines have so much potential. I thought of PG+MM for 24" range of danger and 12" range of outright murder, but then do I take a Powerfist? Or a Powerweapon? Or Combi-weapon? Getting everything makes them so expensive.
The Scouts too are interesting; they'd be a cheep objective holder, but putting many options on the Sergeant makes the squad 50% more expensive!!
This isn't even accounting for the Combat Squad options, I'm pretty lost.
Heavy Support I have none of. 2Predator Destructors would be cheep and effective though, I'm considering them...
So, here's a short list; please comment...
Captain, SB, RB
Pod with Beacon
Tactical Squad: Red
(Combat Squad, Flamer+Fist go hunting, Missile sits back and shoots)
Tactical Squad: Green
7 Regular Guys
Rhino or Pod
(Much more defensive, these guys have a nice 24" range to hurt Infantry and Light Vehicles, with a 12" range of really hurting Infantry and light vehicles!)
I like it up to here. The rest of it seems like using stuff for the sake of it.
Total so far is 978 points and isn't that good. About 500 points of Troops and 500 of Elites+HQ. Marine Troops are so expensive though I'm not sure what to do.
5 Scouts with Camo Cloaks and Shotguns
Sarge has combimelta
(Nice save makes them a bit harder to kill from range, combimelta has a shot at killing a tank that gets too close)
Now I'm left with 5 Marines and 5 Assault Marines. I'll either use the Assault guys as regular troops to make a clone of Tac Squad Red, or leave them as a cheep countercharge unit. I'm also thinking of buying the Dark Angels upgrade sprue to make 10 Sternguard in a pod with my 5 Man Tac squad as filler. 3 Drop pods with Dread/Tactical Squad Green/Sternguard would give me 2 brutal hammer units and one excellent defensive unit to play with... But I still need some Speeders and Tanks :(
This went much longer than I planned, if you got down to here thank you very much for reading and help me if you can :)
First of all, good luck with your list
HQ and elites look fine.
On the tac squads i'd make them flamer/multimelta for some much needed anti tank.
I'd leave the assault marines vanilla, as you could use them as a counter charge unit, the extra attacks are always a plus.
On the scouts, i'm assuming you're just leaving them in cover?
If so, drop the shot guns. They aren't going to be moving anyway and while they're sitting there they may as well be helping out, so give em all sniper rifles instead. I'd drop the combi melta from the sarge as well, and instead maybe pick up a heavy bolter on one (for those awesome hellfire shells, and has the same range as the sniper rifles)
Just my thoughts
Edit: The drop pod dread is a good idea, but it's probably only going to last 1 turn.
Because its in a DP, it HAS to come in turn one. You get one round of shooting with it, then the enemy will likely bring all its anti-armour within 30" to bear on the poor dread. Which means the teleport homer would be useless for your termies (who can come in turn 2 at the earliest)
Either drop the tele homer from the dread, and still tele your termies in.
Or run them for now and expand to grab a transport for them later
They aren't exactly CC with what you've outfitted them with, make them slightly more ranged bias and get them to hang back with the tac squads instead of teleporting in
Last edited by Pigdestroyah; October 7th, 2010 at 06:57.
Here's the list I've edited:
Captain with Combimelta and Relicblade, Rides with Tac Squad Green
Tac Squad Red
(Splits up or stays together depending on mission)
Tac Squad Orange
(Same as Squad Red. The tactic is to use their 2 Meltas to hopefully open a transport for Red Squad to Flame.)
Tac Squad Green
(This squad is in reserves and either goes tank busting if it lands turn 2 or 3, and objective claiming turn 4 or 5. The Captain is there so either 4 Melta shots on one target or 2 on two seperate targets if I combat Squad.)
Both Heavy Flamer
(Both of these guys arrive turn 1 and really wreck stuff. In a pair they should be able to open a transport and kill what's inside, or get two Multimelta shots at the scariest thing the enemy has. And if even one survives he'll be lethal in assault)
(Walk around or deep strike depending on mission)
(Camp in cover, might get a few wounds on MC's)
Tactic is pretty obvious: Dreadnoughts crash in on turn 1 as the Rhino's carry the combat squads down same flank. Scouts hide in a good position. Team Orange opens tanks, Team Red kills the things inside, and the Dreads distract the enemy while they get into good positions. Finally the Captain and Squad Green can come in and save the day at the right moment, either contesting an objective if they come in turn 5 or crushing a leman russ squadron turn two...
What do you think?
Okay, so i'm liking this list alot better
I think your tac squads are good, each capable of adapting to multiple battlefield roles.
You also have quite alot of anti armour across the board now, which is excellent (too many mech players )
2 DP full of dreads turn one is going to have your opponent scared. And they can't be destroyed by scatter, so basically find your opponents nastiest tanks, and put the dp right next to them (hopefully well within the half range of the multimelta for that extra d6 pen )
Your scouts are good, just pop them on your objective/infiltrate them onto an objective and go to ground if anything comes near you. 2+ cover save anyone?
With the termis or the speeders, its really up to you. The speeders will save you points, are much faster, can also DS and can go tank hunting OR horde hunting (HF/MM)
While the termis... well if you like to use them (or you already have the models) i'd say go for it. They're great for soaking up fire if you walk them, protecting your tac squads or (if your opponent wants to get past that 2+ save) some of your rhinos as well
If you deep strike them, pick a good target to unleash all those shots on, preferably far away from a decent assault unit (or making sure you take OUT the decent assault unit )
remember your termis can do far more damage at range then they can in melee, but if you see a tank lying around, with that chainfist and all those powerfists its pretty much dead anyway.
So yeah, your preference really. I'd go with either depending on which models you already have
Thought on your dreadnought builds: I just realized that your build is pretty much a landspeeder with heavy flamer and multi melta, but for like 40 or 50 points more. I might suggest land speeders over dreadnoughts for THAT build. The speeder is going to last just as long as the dread (1 turn) and still packs the same amount of punch. You don't need to buy a drop pod for landspeeders either so that saves you some points there. It seems like the only other thing you're spending the extra 40 - 50 points on the dread is the close combat attacks.. which you almost never live long enough to use. Just thought I would share my personal alternative on that heavy flamer/ multi melta build for dreadnoughts.
But the dreads do more than the speeders: they are an immediate threat
He drops the dreads turn one, right next to his opponents tanks (hopefully getting a kill) and FORCES the opponent to target the dreads with his anti armour. Which means he isn't targetting the rhinos, allowing them to get the marines closer to objectives/the opponents deployment line.
I do agree with you, but the DP dreads do have their uses.
That being said, now that i think about it, i think you should go the speeders. But don't DS them; they're a fast skimmer, just send them whizzing up the flanks to take care of any remains.
For the build, my suggestions would be to drop the heavy flamer from the dreads (they aren't going to last long anyway) and to just take the HF/MM speeders. You have all of your fast attack free so take one for each slot
Very true. Speeders have so much more flexibility; but it does change the nature of the list quite a lot; one Tac Squad podding in is a bit of a waste of time. I quite like having the drop pods there: I'll have a game or two with them first to see how they go (I'll proxy Deffkoptas as Speeders too!)
Would you take units of one speeder or squadrons? If Deathmatch mission comes up I don't think I'd want individual ones for all the kill points.
(Quick Edit; 3Tac Squads, 2 Dreads, Scouts, Captain and 2 Land Speeders comes to 1410)
Options to fill the last few points:
Extra MMHF Speeder (Versatile)
Typhoon Speeder (Good for rear armour or running around at the back/rapid response)
Predator Destructor (Rhino chassis to cover Rhinos, may draw some fire)
Librarian (Psychic Hood is almost worth 100pts anyway, Gate of Infinity/Force Dome with Tac Squad Green could be very helpful)
Thanks again (rep for both of you)
Last edited by GoliathX; October 8th, 2010 at 01:44.
The single or squadron thing... its up to you. I'd prefer to have them separately for versatility reasons... but really just depends on your mission. If you're playing victory points it doesn't really matter, you should go separately, and obviously separately on objective based games. In kill point missions... its your call really
As to your extra options, i feel the destructor would be a lovely edition. I would not take the typhoon speeder (far too many points for something that's only going to last a single melta shot) and i think the extra tank would be more useful than the lib, but its up to your personal preferences/budget/available models really
With speeders I almost always run mine separately because you want to be able to hit either different targets with the MM (armored) or one squad with the HF from different angles. Though I do sometimes run a squad of 2 and a single if I use my assault marines.. which still works fine for me. About deep striking speeders: I only deep strike them if I can get them behind TALL cover to hide them from shots from any direction. If I can't, I just boost them up. Tall cover to hide them behind is your friend.
As for your last few points you could go with the pred destructor to draw more fire away from your speeders. I think having this and the 2 dreads will probably make your opponent ignore the speeders for a few turns.
Last edited by zippoman123; October 8th, 2010 at 21:51.
Yeah pred destructor is the way.
Actually zip, i've found it more effective in recent games to run squads of 2 speeders. Yes, you can't target separately but it pretty much guarantees a kill on a tank, or at least renders it ineffective for the rest of the game. Depends on your points/available models though