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  1. #1
    Senior Member vulcan raven's Avatar
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    750 Black Templars (angry)

    HQ
    ?????

    Elites 480 pts
    -Sword brethren terminator squad
    5 terminators
    2 assault cannons

    -Sword brethren terminator squad
    5 terminators
    2 assault cannons

    Troops 160 pts
    -Crusader squad
    5 initiates

    -Crusader squad
    5 initiates

    After being sent into a fit of anger regarding the madness associated with the loss of 2 assault cannons in a 5 man terminator squad I decided to find an army angry enough for my ambitions, I found it in the black templars.

    So the plan so far is thus. crusaders start on the field, terminators deep strike or start on the field depending on what seems like the angrier thing to do. this should place the terminators in the ideal position to administer their ability to deliver maximum anger.

    Now, I have become unstuck in my attempt to angrify the list in the HQ department. leaving me with a few tangible options as below

    -drop a terminator to make a terminator command squad and put a chaplain/commander in terminator armour?

    -get an emperors champion with 20 pts for vows

    -get a commander with
    terminator honours
    power weapon
    bolt pistol
    bionics
    teleport homer
    thus giving him a total of 6 attacks on the charge. + guiding in the angry teleporters

    -get a chaplain with
    bolt pistol
    teleport homer
    bionics
    to allow 5 attacks on the charge + chaplain bonus +guiding in the angry teleporters

    The last 2 options are appealing to me the best. due to the large number of attacks from the character and the chaplain is looking like a very nice addition to a squads combat capabilities. but I just cannot find the angriest choice for this list.

    Can you help me by sharing an insight into your preference and thus bring about the angriest 750 pt list I can make?

    P.S. Yes, the angry overtones are for the lols.

    Last edited by Rork; July 18th, 2011 at 18:26. Reason: Disclaimer
    Ok fellows we have a difficult task, so we have to be more deadly than everyday.
    Make mistakes and confuse the enemy - The Doctor
    Tactics are nice but it is violence that wins the day.

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot watchwood's Avatar
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    185 (x4)

    I always take a Champion with AACNMTO. I don't really see anywhere where you could free up the extra points for it though. If I remember the codex correctly, he's a mandatory pick anyways at 750 or more.

  4. #3
    Senior Member vulcan raven's Avatar
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    codex says
    "a black templars army of at least 750 pts must include an emperors champion"

    so, letter of the law/rules as written permit it for an army under 750 pts, which this is by a small margin.

    Now, the spirit of the law/rules as intended seem to me to indicate that there is a desire in the compilers intent that the list is to have an emperors champion for 750 pt games. However, the wording muddies the waters by stating that the armies value and not the agreed game point value is the determinate factor for the mandated inclusion of an emperors champion in the army.

    Would I use the list without an emperors champion
    -In a tournament: Yes, pending approval evidently.
    -At a gameworkshop : Yes.
    -With friends: Yes.

    Do I believe that this list
    -is seeking to bend the rules: yes
    -would be fun to play: yes
    -could be seen as power gaming by getting more assault cannons on the terminators: yes
    ===================================

    AACNMTO is affordable, at the cost of assault cannons, which is kind of the point of the list in the first place though
    Last edited by vulcan raven; July 18th, 2011 at 13:22.
    Ok fellows we have a difficult task, so we have to be more deadly than everyday.
    Make mistakes and confuse the enemy - The Doctor
    Tactics are nice but it is violence that wins the day.

  5. #4
    LO Zealot greggles's Avatar
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    Why would you ever not take a Emp Champ? He's awesome in combat, he's got great saves, and he gives your entire army, including dreadnoughts, reroll hits in CC for 50 points!!!! He's also not very expensive!

    The model is even cool looking! Other codexes would KILL to take such a cheap HQ with such amazing abilities. He is what makes them the black templars. Without him their only call to fame is overpriced sword brethren, and "it's a trap" terminators with veteran skills,
    Last edited by greggles; July 18th, 2011 at 14:07.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot watchwood's Avatar
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    185 (x4)

    You could replace one of the shooty terminator squads with assault terminators, and use the extra points to spread some upgrade love around.

  7. #6
    Senior Member vulcan raven's Avatar
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    While the emperors champion will give a boost to the army overall, however the list is tailored to do something that BT do not really go out and do, ranged fire.

    He does very well in combat with 3-4 attacks, whereas the HQ gets 3-6 pending equipment & charge. while I think that the sword that the champion has is better than any weapon available bar none, the armoury has things that make up for this shortfall, like teleport homers. I must say that the champion has much better survivability with his armour.

    In short, the way that the armoury equipment harmonises the list into a more reliable entity has a benefit greater than the AACNMTO will on how the list is intended to function.

    I think, getting a teleport homer into the list to help keep the anvil of my army safe during their most vulnerable moment will benefit me more than than a gestalt boon to combat.
    Last edited by vulcan raven; July 18th, 2011 at 15:49.
    Ok fellows we have a difficult task, so we have to be more deadly than everyday.
    Make mistakes and confuse the enemy - The Doctor
    Tactics are nice but it is violence that wins the day.

  8. #7
    Senior Member vulcan raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchwood View Post
    You could replace one of the shooty terminator squads with assault terminators, and use the extra points to spread some upgrade love around.
    True, the points would mean that some veteran skills would be able to come into play with the terminators. I'm not a fan of veteran skill usually, but to me it seems if I will place so much pressure on them to perform they need something to consolidate their capabilities.

    Which is why I have the chaplain-commander dilemma..... I'm thinking with the assault terminators a chaplain will benefit the list more.

    LD 10 from the commander is great, but when the hurt gets called down with assault terminators and there's a chaplain to piggy back into the fray with furious charge, then there's something that can really deliver a kick in the pants.

    I still have fear that
    -changing one terminator squad to a CC one will diminish my ability to intimidate with gunfire, meaning that they have less pressure to choose between the risks of ranged combat vs the anger of powerfists in combat.
    -flexibility will drop, assault cannons IIRC are better at armour popping than a lascannon even unto AV14.

    But maybe, in my head I seized on the idea that they'll arrive simultaneously with crippling fire power. I havn't really considered the effects of a delayed landing of assault terminators.
    Ok fellows we have a difficult task, so we have to be more deadly than everyday.
    Make mistakes and confuse the enemy - The Doctor
    Tactics are nice but it is violence that wins the day.

  9. #8
    Senior Member vulcan raven's Avatar
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    double post
    Ok fellows we have a difficult task, so we have to be more deadly than everyday.
    Make mistakes and confuse the enemy - The Doctor
    Tactics are nice but it is violence that wins the day.

  10. #9
    LO Zealot greggles's Avatar
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    192 (x4)

    I Personally think its not going to work very well. I have trouble fitting 2 groups of terminators in my army list at 2k points...at 750 you are basically crippling your army by taking terminators.

    You could take 3 preds with lascannon sponsoons, and a typhoon landspeeder...or 7 typhoons! (14 blast templates and 21 hvy bolter shots!)

    I played a game yesterday...fellow dropped two groups of terminators (5 each) into an excellent area for laying down fire. They fired once, then were completely wiped out by templates and blasts.

    The fact they deep strike in, in a tiny bunched up circle, usually results in them not lasting very long. A single plasma cannon blast can cover the whole lot of them. Not to mention, if they scatter, mishaps are a high likelyhood.

    If you really really want them...foot slog them on, give them cyclone missiles, and just sit them in cover, firing the whole game. Boring but effective. But then of course, you can do the same thing with typhoon squadrons, at far less points.
    Last edited by greggles; July 18th, 2011 at 17:25.

  11. #10
    LO Zealot watchwood's Avatar
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    Are the terminators really necessary? There's other routes to a similar theme. Consider the following:

    140 Emperor's Champion, AACNMTO
    101 5x Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun
    101 5x Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun
    101 5x Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun
    101 5x Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun
    101 5x Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun
    101 5x Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun
    =746

    If you give all the extra marines pistols and chainswords, then you'd have a very solid source of fire support backed by the ability to deliver a fairly effective charge. You could even rearm the squad that the champion accompanies with a powerfist and meltagun for an extra 4 points, and be at exactly 750. Each regular squad would still be getting 13 attacks on the charge, rerolling all misses, and even more from whatever unit the champ runs with. It's nothing to sneeze at, especially combined with all that fire support.

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