<3000 Very Green Guard Commander, 1750pts Mixed Bag - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Very Green Guard Commander, 1750pts Mixed Bag

    I have read allot of the lists here and they all seem to be either melta vets chimeras, air cav vets, mass infantry or mass tank lists. I am guessing these lists win battles but as a new commander I wanted to try to include a bit of everything, I'm sure this will dillute the effectiveness of any of the individual elements, but to me it seems far more in the spirit of the game and realistic. I liked the idea of a large amount of troops holding the center of the board static, with lots of heavy weapons and the armour to soften the enemy and then my fast moving units attacking flanks etc, Well here goes...


    Company Command Squad
    4xSniper rifles
    Cammo Cloaks
    90pts

    Infantry Platoon

    Platoon Command Squad
    1xAutocannon
    1xGrenade Launcher
    45pts

    Infantry Squad (X2)
    1xAutocannon
    1xGrenade Launcher
    130pts

    Heavy Weapons Squad (x2)
    Morters
    120pts

    Heavy Weapons Squad
    Lasscannons
    105pts

    Heavy Weapons Squad
    Autocannons
    75pts

    Heavy Weapons Squad
    Heavy Bolters
    75pts


    2x Veteran Squads - 3 meltas in Chimeras
    310pts

    2 x Lemon Russ Exterminators with hull lasscannons
    410pts

    2 x Vendetta Gunships with heavy bolters
    280pts

    Scout Sentinal Squadron
    3x Scout Sentinals, Multilasers
    105pts

    TOTAL = 1745pts

    Is it possible to win with an army like this? or is it to non-specific? If this is no good whats the simplist type of army for a new commander? Thanks !!


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    HQ: As a babysitter HQ this is ok. I prefer GLs instead as the CCS can then move and fire if you have to. Get a standard too to keep the surrounding chaps happy.

    Troops: Platoon is ok. Who is going in the vendettas? I would swap a HWS (mortars) for a SWS with meltas or flamers to go in the skimmer and also rearm the PCS with 4 flamers to do a similar job. Veterans look good.

    Fast: Good. Many prefer AC on sentinels for the outflanking shots on side armour of tanks.

    Heavy: My favourite is demolisher with hull lascannon or standard russ with HB and sponson plasmas.
    Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.

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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Lemon Russ
    They aren't that bad. Really!

    I believe HW squads are 0-3 per platoon.

    This list isn't going to work. The reason Guard lists come in either 'mech' or 'blob' types is defending against close combat. The former type uses redundancy, the latter uses attrition, and both use the fact that the enemy can't wipe out a particular squad with a single charge. This last is why IG lists focused on separate, dismounted squads and/or HW squads do poorly--when any enemy charges them, they're guaranteed both victory and extra movement. Worse, many enemies will be able to charge multiple squads at the same time. That hurts.

    There are a couple ways to do a neither-mech-nor-blob list (mainly Creed) but they all come with major handicaps. I can't recommend any of them to a novice general. Meanwhile, the best template for a balanced list is to bring platoons, running the infantry squads as blobs and the command squads as mechs. For two platoons, the cost comes to maybe 800 points (depending on equipment), which leaves plenty of room for toys and experiments.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    If an enemy wipes out a guard squad in a single turn that is a good thing. Last thing you want is for them to kill half and you pass your morale test and the fight continues into your assault phase where you then loose and die or flee. This would mean you missing the opportunity to rappid fire the victors into oblivion. Let the enemy win, let them have an extra D6 consolidation, then let them have 6 plasmagun shots and 13 lasrounds from a nearby veteran squad in your turn.
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    Its 0-5 Heavy wpns squads. But I did get wrong the tanks they should have been 330pts not 410pts that would leave me with 80pts. But it sounds like the whole list is flawed, so to include allot of heavy wpn teams I need to go heavier on the infantry then?

    So what would be the easiest style of army for the new general?

  7. #6
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    A good list is the mechanised route.
    HQ: CCS + 3 Plasma + STD in chimera
    Troops: 3-5 squads of melta or Plasma vets in chimeras.
    Fast: 1-3 Vendettas. (one cheap platoon gan travel in these for anti infantry or add melta Vets)
    Heavy: LR demolishers, Hydras or standard russ with sponsons.
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  8. #7
    Son of LO IronWeevil's Avatar
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    605 (x8)

    HW Squads are 0-5 per platoon actually. I tend to run one for every infantry squad that I field in foot platoon lists.
    Praise the Emperor and pass the promethium!

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    Son of LO IronWeevil's Avatar
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    605 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    If an enemy wipes out a guard squad in a single turn that is a good thing. Last thing you want is for them to kill half and you pass your morale test and the fight continues into your assault phase where you then loose and die or flee. This would mean you missing the opportunity to rappid fire the victors into oblivion. Let the enemy win, let them have an extra D6 consolidation, then let them have 6 plasmagun shots and 13 lasrounds from a nearby veteran squad in your turn.
    While it is better to lose a single squad in your opponent's assault phase, it is not good to lose 2+ squads in yours.

    Infantry blobs are tarpits into which an enemy goes to never return from, or return when it's too late to accomplish anything. 30+ bodies with Stubborn and leadership re-rolls is difficult to shift in assault, even with dedicated assault units.

    Lone squads used as ablative cover are another matter entirely. They are designed to absorb an assault and break. The opposing assault unit is then subjected to another round of fire during your shooting phase. It takes careful deployment and movement to keep this strategy workable. Multi assaults will wipe out multiple lone squads in a single assault phase, if they are placed poorly.
    Praise the Emperor and pass the promethium!

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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Guess I was thinking of SW squads or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat
    If an enemy wipes out a guard squad in a single turn that is a good thing.
    Let me explain further. A large part of mech lists' effectiveness comes from how those veteran squads cannot be killed in a single turn. If the enemy charges their Chimera then, no matter how deadly that charge is, the passengers will suffer no more than a pinning test and a couple dead meatshields. The Chimera dies, sure, but it's hardly a loss. Half the reason they're purchased is precisely for this purpose. (The other half is to bring the passengers within special weapon range, which is also accomplished by the time a charge happens.)

    Imagine how ineffective a mech list would be if most enemies could easily kill (not just cripple) both the Chimera and its passengers with a single charge, or if the enemy was allowed to consolidate into the passenger squad. This is what I mean by "wipe out". Both mech and blob lists guarantee that at least some of your unit will survive when the enemy hits you. In this thread's initial list, there is no such buffer.

    Enemy movement is also an issue. When an enemy charges and kills an infantry squad, they get both a charge move and a consolidation move. This allows them to advance quickly into your backfield and position their models to minimize the effectiveness of any templates. In their next turn, they'll be ready to perform those multi-target charges I mentioned. Why not just shoot them up during the interim? Because the enemy is fielding multiple chargers, or because the solo enemy is a Death Star...and always because you need 100% casualties. Just two surviving Marines out of 10 is enough to claim another infantry squad. Don't expect any failed morale tests, either.

    Mech and blob lists work to deny that additional movement--the latter by tarpitting, the former by denying many consolidation moves (while simultaneously forcing the enemy to clump up tightly...perfect for flame- or blast-template retribution.)

    to include allot of heavy wpn teams I need to go heavier on the infantry then?

    So what would be the easiest style of army for the new general?
    You can still keep a HWS or two; they're a good way to field heavy bolters and mortars in particular. The blob is, however, the best way to do infantry.

    The best sort of army to start with is using two infantry blobs and a CCS for defense. The Commissars ensure that the blobs will obey the CCS' orders and that your defensive line will hold to the last man. This frees up the rest of your list to include almost anything you want; the IG Codex has relatively few useless units. (Namely, Ogryns, ratlings, and the Lord Commissar.) Some Chimeras and/or skimmers will give you a versatile offense.

    I liked the idea of a large amount of troops holding the center of the board
    Give Colonel Straken a look. He likes doing that "advance the front lines" thing and may be the theme you're looking for.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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