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  1. #1
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
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    Struggling with my first non horde army - 2k Blood Angels

    Hi all. I'd like to start a long term project and as I always loved them I thought I'd pick Blood Angels. However coming from 2 horde armies (Nids and Orks) Im really not sure how to go about making a list with so few models, so figured I'd ask for some help.

    Im trying to go for a semi meched list with a decent portion of (hopefully) survivable jump troops but barring razorback spam Im open to anything, though I'd love to be able to keep the stormraven.

    Anyway here goes:

    Reclusiarch - XXX

    5 Terminators, 4 claws and 1 hammer - 205

    3 Priests - 2 jump packs - 200

    10 Assault Marines - 2 melta, powerfist - 235

    10 Assault Marines - 2 melta, powerfist - 235

    6 Assault Marines - melta, Infernus pistol and power weapon - Jump packs removed, Las/Plas razorback - 213

    6 Assault Marines - melta, Infernus pistol and power weapon - Jump packs removed, Las/Plas razorback - 213

    Baal Predator - Assault cannon, Heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade - 150

    Baal Predator - Assault cannon, Heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade - 150

    Stormraven - Twin las, multimelta - XXX



    This still leaves 69 points to spare but im really not sure where to go. I can't help feeling 5 reasonably fragile tanks isn't a lot for 2k and that Im lacking a bit in ranged anti tank. The plan was to put the Reclusiarch with the termies and packless preist in the raven, move flat out and try and melt something, then get out next and start beating face in assault. The meched up squads were supposed to hang back a bit whilst the packs go in all guns blazing, whilst the baals find some nice cover and sit in it, hopefully taking chunks out of infantry for the most part, but with anti tank if desperate.

    A few questions, Is it worth having infernus and power weapon on the small squads? I figured another melta shot would be nice and they wouldn't need a Powerfist but it seems costly. Im also not sure about the baals, if I dropped them I could grab 2 predator annihilators which would help with the anti tank somewhat. I can also see the benefit of a librarian but cant find where to get the points.


    Anyway feel free to rip the list apart since its all hypothetical currently and thanks in advance for any wisdom you can provide

    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

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  3. #2
    Shrubs for the Blood God Undead Bonzi's Avatar
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    #1. Your mounted assault squads are confused. You've spent too many points on upgrades for close up tank busting suicide units and then more points on their ride to make it a stand-back-and-snipe anti-tank unit. Drop the infernus and the power sword and the extra man. These guys will suck and die in combat against anything except random armies that they would beat without upgrades (guard).

    Take the points saved and your remaining points and consider buying a cheap dred with multi-melta to get towed by the Raven. Now you've got long range anti-tank that can be tossed away as suicide units or objective campers and a melta-dred you can drop with the termies to deal with tanks midfield.

    #2. Add another hammer/shield to your termie squad. If the Reclusiarch is with them then they will have plenty of pw attacks.

    #3. Consider an infernus pistol on your Reclusiarch. It will give your termie unit the ability to bust close transports and assault the contents. BS 5 + melta pistol rocks.

    #4. Consider dropping one jp priest. If you do it right two FnP/FC bubbles is more than enough. There is always soft targets for the second squad to go for. Use the points to throw power weapons on the remaining priests. The extra whamy on the first charge is worth it.
    The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
    -Undead Bonzi

  4. #3
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    You definitely need a more reliable delivery system for the Terminators than the Storm Raven. What do you think about a 2-Land Raider list? Not only are they more durable, their size will allow a jump squad to follow them in safety and they can duplicate the Predators' firepower. Two LR Crusaders, one with the Termies and one with an Assault squad, followed by two jump Assault Squads, with the Storm Raven and another unit or two giving defense and support. That's about 2k. You could even use an honor guard in the second LR; they come with a Priest.

    Ideally, such a list would include a Drop Pod with Dread or cheap DC. That way, the opponent has an immediate threat on turn 1. On turn 2, the Land Raiders arrive to reinforce/avenge the Pod. On turn 3, the jump packers arrive. That's a lot of charges and pressure for the enemy to manage.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  5. #4
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice there Undead Bonzi, that's a big help and made a lot of good sense.

    Intrepid, I like the idea of having dual raiders but what makes you say the Raven is a bit unreliable? The couple of practice games Ive run with proxies have gone okay, I've taken to boosting the raven as fast as possible towards the enemy and using the multi melta on something first turn, then moving 6 to unleash everything and let the lads out the front hatch. Its yet to be killed off straight away thanks to the cover save, and I figure if it is, deploying the termies away from any assaulting units would keep them safer? I suppose there's a bit of a risk if you don't get first turn though. Is there something I missed regarding the raven's reliablity?

    If I was to look at dual raiders, would anti tank not be a worry? This list seemed light and without the razor's Id be seriously concerned. Are the melta in squads up to the task normally?
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  6. #5
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    what makes you say the Raven is a bit unreliable?
    The risks involved in moving flat out. Not only do immobilized hits count as 'vehicle destroyed' while moving that fast but all passengers are removed as casualties when it is destroyed per the latest FAQ. Land Raiders are a little slower but never take their passengers with them when they die. You can move the Storm Raven more slowly to prevent this but, with its elevated base, it'll have trouble finding a cover save to protect its advance.

    Most players who use a Storm Raven-dependent advance bring at least two of them.

    Are the melta in squads up to the task normally?
    It depends. Most players in my area rely on meltaguns in transports to kill Land Raiders but the LR is usually able to get the drop on them thanks to its passengers and assault rules. They have to really spam melta before it's sure to get through. I find that deepstriking meltaguns are the real concern. Even then, however, deepstrikers are hardly guaranteed to arrive before the Land Raider deploys its passengers. Unless the enemy has a melta-filled Drop Pod or plenty of lance weapons then first blood usually goes to the LR.

    Notice also that meltas need to be within 6" before they're a real threat, too. Even if (when) the LR does die, the passengers are going to have plenty of nearby targets for some vengeance. This is also why having jump troops following Land Raiders is a good idea. Not only does the huge LR provide cover, the jump troops can charge every enemy that attempts to hurt it. Few units can both kill a Land Raider and fight off a dozen charging Marines.

    Having a second Land Raider adds redundancy to all this. Opponents plan for encountering one LR (or similar heavy armor) but usually not two.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  7. #6
    Shrubs for the Blood God Undead Bonzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    The risks involved in moving flat out. Not only do immobilized hits count as 'vehicle destroyed' while moving that fast but all passengers are removed as casualties when it is destroyed per the latest FAQ. Land Raiders are a little slower but never take their passengers with them when they die. You can move the Storm Raven more slowly to prevent this but, with its elevated base, it'll have trouble finding a cover save to protect its advance.

    Most players who use a Storm Raven-dependent advance bring at least two of them.
    I thought the all-passengers destroyed result was only if it happened in your turn (meaning turbo into dangerous terrain, get immobilized and die). Your opponent immobilizing the turbo-boosted vehicle does destroy the vehicle but it is not your turn, thus the mounted squad takes its normal wounds and pinning test but is not auto-destroyed. Is there are new faq on this matter?
    The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    I don't think so--I'm looking at Rulebook FAQ 1.4, page 6--but, on reflection, the phrasing is somewhat ambiguous.

    Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as
    it moved flat out what happens to any embarked
    models? ( p70 )
    A: They are removed as casualties.
    I read 'same turn' as being the turn during which the flat-out movement remains in effect (cover save, hitting on 6's in close combat, and so on). Maybe a case could be made for it being the owning player's turn only but I can't see the rationale for having movement effects change depending on whose player-turn it is. GW would probably have phrased it "in the same movement phase" otherwise, just as they did in a subsequent entry on the same page:

    Q: If a skimmer is immobilised in its own Movement
    phase whilst moving flat out is it still destroyed? (p71)
    A: Yes.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  9. #8
    Shrubs for the Blood God Undead Bonzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    I don't think so--I'm looking at Rulebook FAQ 1.4, page 6--but, on reflection, the phrasing is somewhat ambiguous.



    I read 'same turn' as being the turn during which the flat-out movement remains in effect (cover save, hitting on 6's in close combat, and so on). Maybe a case could be made for it being the owning player's turn only but I can't see the rationale for having movement effects change depending on whose player-turn it is. GW would probably have phrased it "in the same movement phase" otherwise, just as they did in a subsequent entry on the same page:
    The 1.4 FAQ answers what a 'turn' means on the first page.


    Q: What is meant when the term ‘turn’ is used? (p9)
    A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player
    turn. Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a
    complete game turn both players get a player turn.
    Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns
    The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
    -Undead Bonzi

  10. #9
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undead Bonzi View Post
    I thought the all-passengers destroyed result was only if it happened in your turn (meaning turbo into dangerous terrain, get immobilized and die)
    Which is how I was playing it too. So does the fact the raven won't kill its occupants if it dies make it more worthwhile as a delivery system?
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  11. #10
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Yes, that would make it much more viable. Seems I missed that clarification.

    Edit: And just to rub it in, the latest round of official FAQs came out today...and they confirm my error. Sigh.
    Last edited by Intrepid; January 16th, 2012 at 23:36.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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