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(Arghhh double post, as my last one accidentally went in the main tactics thread)
I'm planning to start marines for the first time ever and wanted to use normal marines and make my own chapter, not using any cheesy rules or codexes like blood angels or space wolves. I wanted to avoid being rail-roaded into the whole 3x 5missilefang lists, etc... I do however love forgeworld, and my local store is always happy for forgeworld models to be used, as long as they have the WH40K stamp in the imperial armour books. So here it is.
Librarian + Terminator armour with storm shield - Nullzone + Vortex of doom
5x Assault Terminators, 3x Storm and thunder hammers, 2x twin lightning claws
5x Assault Terminators, 3x Storm and thunder hammers, 2x twin lightning claws (split in 2 squads to get an extra sergeant)
1x Siege Dreadnaught with Flamestorm cannon
10x Tactical Marines + Plasma Cannon + Meltagun + Combi-melta
10x Tactical Marines + Plasma Cannon + Meltagun + Combi-melta + Rhino
10x Scouts + 10xCamo cloaks, 4 snipers, 1 missile launcher, 5 melee weapons
1x Caestus Assault Ram
1x Caestus Assault Ram
1x Lucius Assault Pattern Dreadnaught Drop-Pod
1x Deathwind Drop-Pod
1x Deathwind Drop-pod
For those who don't know the FW rules i'll briefly outline them here, hopefully without breaking any rules.
Caestus Ram - Land raider that flies, (13 armour), has 4x large template one use missiles and a large template MELTA gun, terminators can assault from it, and can carry more than 5 term armoured bodies.
Siege Dred - Dred with +d6 to penetrate and a str6ap3 flamer. (and a 2nd heavy flamer)
Lucius assault pattern drop - Drop pod for dreadnaught that you can assault out of first turn.
Deathwind drops - Drop pods with whirlwind missile launchers in them, when they first drop they fire d3 large templates at EVERY unit within 12", friend or foe. After that they only fire once per turn, but you choose who and where.
Every 10 man unit splits into combat squads, scouts infiltrate to distract people, if shot at G2G for 2++ to waste the enemy's time. Tactical marines spread out to take objectives while one mobile melta squad uses rhino to scout ahead. If i get 1st turn I send the siege dread podding next to a priority tank and pretty much 100% kill it. If I get 2nd turn the siege dread waits, and instead the deathstorms go down to thin some ranks and distract the enemy. Meanwhile the terminator squads split up and hop in a Caestus each, one with the libby, to go hunt. Any nasty shenningans like a Drago wing will be Magna-melta killed by the rams, before the terminators pop out. Nullzone is used 90% of the time, while the vortex is there just in case... or if a nasty tank pops up.
Basically im going for a shock and awe distraction army. Start of the game im in your face, scouts shooting from close by, melee scouts running close.. a dread has dropped and assaulted you from behind and a missile drop-pod is firing away, two fliers with assault terms are running in at a 36 inch turbo boost... My tac marines will probably go completely ignored, and im hoping to pin the enemy in and utterly maul them. If they survive, they'll be so weakened that my tac marines should be able to mop up. IF they survive.
Looks really interesting and like it would be a blast to play with, but unless my points are off it looks like you may be 20 points over. Have you considered the Mortis Pattern Contemptor Dreads? I can't get enough of the Kheres Assault Cannons with the CML! 12 AssCan shots and 2 missiles at BS 5 while on the move is lovely. Another HQ that might work well with your list would be Mordaci Blaylock if you can fit him in, as he will make your terminators scoring.
Ah yeah, im sure im still under, but correct me where im wrong if im missing it. ( i might have skimmed accidentally) I do like the mortis, but they're sooo expensive
215 pts compared to 120 for a siege dred.... T_T
Still, if you keep it backfield, thats a hell of a lot of shots.
If i do o over, i'll drop the rhino... Part of me thinks i should drop the 3rd tac squad anyway, considering the troops seem almost un-needed since everything else is getting in the enemy's face... could have a character or a chapter master, or even a sternguard drop pod...
Or ass marines.
The thing is though that your Siege Dread is not just 120 points, it's 185 points with the drop pod. So for a difference of 30 points you can have the Mortis. If you are going to drop one of the Tac Squads you could just drop both and take 2 squads of 5 with TL-Multi-Melta Razorbacks for 130 points each + what ever upgrades you want to throw on the Sgt. This would give you 155 extra points so that could either upgrade the Siege Dread to the Mortis, or upgrade your libby to Mordaci so that you still have the same number of scoring units. Some issues that you may run into if you change your list is that you have already filled your 3 fast and elite slots. You could make the Terminators 1 10-man and just combat squad them if you needed the extra elite slot. Or if you change the Siege to the Mortis it moves to a heavy slot that you currently have free.
Ah a very cunning point you make there, I'll certainly have to consider it... the current advantage of the siege dred is that it effectively guarantees the destruction of a high priority target, first turn if I need it to. I admit however that the Mortis would have more staying power (and a bigger impact over the game length), and ofc I can 10 man the terminators, they're in two sets of 5 just to snatch the extra seargeant because i DIDNT have a 3rd elite.
Do you believe I could drop the rhino tac squad? And remain competetive with 4 combat squads? I ask simply because I could then have 215pts to play with, which could allow the mortis switch as you say, and open a fast attack for a squad of 3 attack bikes with multimeltas... Or a character. Mainly I'm trying to juggle between my needs.
The Mortis rips the everloving out of hordes, elite units and light vehicles. But the siege destroys a vehicle, easily, even a land raider. Distracts the enemy to a threat in their own camp, and if it survives, can toast elite infantry with the flamestorm. (I realise it is an IF it survives though, as surrounded by the enemy, he will likely take damage). But he will hopefully remove the heavy weapons shooting at my Caestus rams! Which is the main point. - With 1000pts in 2 units and their transports, they NEED to get there in one piece, and a dreadnaught in your face, ripped open a transport and standing before infantry with a heavy flamer and a flamestorm?? That's a "DEAL WITH ME NOW!" Situation.
Im currently waiting on the two Badab books atm, being delivered soon, and my army is unpainted, so im thinking of using one of the new chapters in there, when i see their characters. Perhaps the Minotaurs or the Charcedons (sp?).
Last edited by Coeur; March 6th, 2012 at 17:25. Reason: Extra point to be made.
P.s. Which book has rules for Mordecai, if i can ask? He sounds pretty damn handy! That said, part of me is considering Master Harath Shan to give my terminators FnP... but that might be a bit OTT
I don't think you can really depend on 4 combat squads to be effective and be your only scoring units. They would have to really choose their battles carefully or hide the 2 5-man tac squads and just send in the TL-Multi-Melta razorbacks to become a treat. That is kind of why I was suggesting Mordaci Blaylock, that way you can still have 6 scoring units. 3 would be in your opponents face (2x Terminator squads & CCW/BP Scouts) while the other 3 can chill in the back or mid field (tac squads & Sniper/Missile Scouts). The nice thing about the Siege Dread is that he can assault turn 1, but after turn 1 you have an expensive Drop Pod doing nothing. Unless you can take out a 200+ point unit turn 1 and draw enough fire away from everything else you have, it may not be worth it. I might even suggest that if you keep the Seige Dread to hold him back from the first wave and let the Deathwind Drop Pods do the damage first. This way when your Siege Dread comes in it will have the pick of the litter to what to assault and have to worry a little less about being taken out right away as your terminators should be in the enemy lines by then cutting down on the threat to the Dread.
You may want to have your "C.A.R.s" move 12" turn 1 in order to get off the melta shots as some of the weaker transports, so that the Deathwinds have nice squishy targets to pie-plate. And leave the harder targets (av12+) for turn 2+.
Ah i checked google, mordecai's rules are in the books i've already ordered, so good. I'll certainly check him out, and after imagining (and lusting) about the mortis pattern dred, im considering dropping the 3rd tac squad in favour of adding one, IF i can jiggle points to fit Mordecai in. So i'd have 6 scoring units, the mortis, and the siege.
I think you're right about "resisting" the first turn drop too, I think i'll try use him at a different stage, but if i see a single landraider packed with a deathstar, i'm taking it out first turn and stranding him. - Far too many draigowings around here...
I agree with you on needing to take out the DeathStar raider turn 1, no doubt. Mordaci is not that special himself, as a Captain he has a MC-ChainFist and a normal Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor and any Terminator unit he joins can choose to pass or fail any moral tests they have to make, and can not be pinned (kind of like Calgar) & he makes Assault/Terminators scoring. Other then that he is a standard Captain in Termi armor, so for 40 points you get the Master Crafted and the couple extra frills. Nothing too overly impressive.
As far as dropping the 10-man Tac Squad, I just want to make sure that I was clear that my suggestion was to drop both 10-man units down to 5-man units. You will lose the Plasma Cannon and Meltagun but you will be able to pick up 2 Razorbacks with TL-Multi-Meltas. I am not suggesting Dropping 1 10-man unit all together and just combat squading the other 10-man.
Right I see, i'll check that out in the points and everything. I reckon with the razorbacks AND mordecai, assuming he is like 180-190, which seems to be charater average, il likely be over 2k, even with the loss of plasma guns and meltagun costs. But I COULD be wrong, i'll perhaps see about posting an alt list later tonight or tomorrow. Without breaking any forum rules, is my estimate on Mordecai's points cost accurate?