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  1. #1
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    750pt Blood Angel/Raven Guard List.

    Hi all,

    Just an army I knocked together really that I want reviewed

    - Just a quick notice first - I am using the Blood Angel Codex to represent Raven Guard - I will follow all the rules for Blood Angels, but I will NOT include anything from the Blood Angels list which does not fit the raven guard theme - so no Storm-Ravens, Land Raider Spams, Death Company, Special Characters etc

    With that out of the way ...

    HQ
    Captain - Melta Bombs, Lightning Claw, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack - 165

    Troops

    10 Assault Marines - 2 Flamers, Sgt has Power Fist and Melta Bombs, 5 extra Marines - 230

    5 Shotgun Scouts - Locator Beacon, Shotguns - 100

    5 Shotgun Scouts - Locator Beacon, Shotguns - 100

    5 Combat Blade Scouts - Combat Blades - 75

    5 Combat Blade Scouts - Combat Blades - 75

    Total = 745


    Well, thoughts? =)

    The Captain will accompany the Assault Squad and together they will form the CC core of the army - the Locator Beacons are there to ensure that they dont scatter (which they may not need anyway due to descent of angels...)

    The Shotgun scouts are there to provide close supporting fire to whatever unit the assault squad will charge - correct me if I'm wrong but the range on the shotgun is 12' yes? if that's the case then they will fire their weapons at the unit the assault squad will charge in order to soften them up - same goes for the bolt pistol/Combat blade scouts, who will if necessary, charge in with the assault squad to swarm the enemy with attacks.

    The melta bombs are there as for the moment, I'm unsure of how to fill an anti-tank role in a raven guard themed list that doesn't consist of a vehicle :/ - the basic idea is to use the mobility of the assault squad to run down enemy tanks and melta-bomb/krak grenade it to nothing...


    Anyway - what do you think? Possible improvements?

    Thanks


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  3. #2
    Member nat01's Avatar
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    well is there a reason why your not taking melta guns in the assault squad?(remove the melta bombs and you can do that) also if your lacking antitank after that, try combi melta on the scout sarges o he can rapid fire his bolter if you dont plan to charge, melta if needs and charge or still fire his pistol and charge. if you want i dont see a good fluff reason why yu couldnt hvae an inferno pistol on your captain instead of the plas( i dont trust plasma pistols....)
    if your thinking at what to do next, another assault squad, attack bikes and speeders, maby even vanguard vets (and make real use of the locator beacons...)

    hope that helps a bit and opens up a few of the other potential yet fluffy ba unis that raven guard also use...

  4. #3
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    I don't like those Scouts, not at all... what good are any of them? The shotguns won't be too useful, and the combat Scouts will be rocky at best. Right now, your anti-tank and your assault is really tied up in a single unit, which it only takes one other enemy unit to tie them up the whole game; I'd recommend spreading it out a little bit. Get some more firepower in your Scouts (a missile launcher never hurt!), and maybe find some wiggle room for some more power armour. At this points level, I'd even suggest a 5-man Assault Squad with the Captain, then use the points freed up (plus five dropped Scouts) and find room for a Tactical Squad if you can.

    The list right now just seems very "hit or miss," and I feel like Scouts will lead you to more misses than you'd like!

  5. #4
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Thank you for your replies

    I don't like those Scouts, not at all... what good are any of them? The shotguns won't be too useful, and the combat Scouts will be rocky at best. Right now, your anti-tank and your assault is really tied up in a single unit, which it only takes one other enemy unit to tie them up the whole game; I'd recommend spreading it out a little bit. Get some more firepower in your Scouts (a missile launcher never hurt!), and maybe find some wiggle room for some more power armour. At this points level, I'd even suggest a 5-man Assault Squad with the Captain, then use the points freed up (plus five dropped Scouts) and find room for a Tactical Squad if you can.

    The list right now just seems very "hit or miss," and I feel like Scouts will lead you to more misses than you'd like!
    An original Set-up I was running was to have the scout units in 2 squads of 10 rather than 4 squads of 5, with 5 combat blades and 5 shotguns in each squad, so that I could still fire all my guns and assault, but the unit would be bigger to begin with and so could take a little more damage... it was late last night when I finished the list, so if I'm honest I don't really know why I broke them up into groups of 5 haha

    - I do certainly want at least 1 unit of scouts in there, 2 if possible, to really get a raven guard feel going, but due to the lack of any AT at the minute I'm happy to consider dropping a scout unit to make way for some better AT...

    One thing I think may work would be to make the 10 man unit I suggested above, drop a scout squad entirely (so I've got a total of 15 instead of 20 ) and then reconfigure the remaining 5 man squad to be a sniper squad with a missile launcher - that gives me a unit that can perform longer range action, and also pop the occasional light tank... I'm just not sure whether or not a missile launcher really meshes well with snipers (both aesthetically on the field and tactically) - but on the positive side it would mean they're all carrying heavy weapons, so there'd be no worry about using them all with that in mind.

    What about instead of an assault squad I instead get something like Sternguard (possibly in a Drop-Pod with the Captain) - they have great potential for combi-spam at fairly low prices, and are also pretty decent in combat, the captain would make a pretty good beat-stick also to help keep the unit running smoothly should something charge them. - To be honest if a unit like that is included, I may well just go for the vanilla marine list instead, as the current advantage of Blood Angels is that Assault Squads are core, AND get a Drop Pod for free, but to my knowledge Sternguard get neither of those benefits in the BA army - AND in the Vanilla Marine army I have the option of a Relic Blade on the captain, which has served me very very well in the past.

    well is there a reason why your not taking melta guns in the assault squad?(remove the melta bombs and you can do that) also if your lacking antitank after that, try combi melta on the scout sarges o he can rapid fire his bolter if you dont plan to charge, melta if needs and charge or still fire his pistol and charge. if you want i dont see a good fluff reason why yu couldnt hvae an inferno pistol on your captain instead of the plas( i dont trust plasma pistols....)
    if your thinking at what to do next, another assault squad, attack bikes and speeders, maby even vanguard vets (and make real use of the locator beacons...)

    hope that helps a bit and opens up a few of the other potential yet fluffy ba unis that raven guard also use...
    Initially I had planned to use the Assault Squad + Captain as their name-sake really - Assaulting However, when it came to my attention later on in making the list that I lacked a serious AT deterrant, I decided to give 'em melta bombs and hope that their mobility and high strenght bombs and 'nades would allow them to run down enemy tanks. - The Flamers were there because of the desire to put a template weapon on an enemy before assaulting so as to cause the maximum "soften-upper" wounds as it were...

    Combi-Melta I'm not sure on for the Scout sgts.... that wasn't really the role I had planned for them really what with the shottys and combat blades (in a combined squad or in a 5 man squad with either of those weapons), while I suppose it would be possible to alpha-strike enemy tanks via infiltrate and scout move, that one shot might well be a waste, especially considering it requires a 4 to hit too...

    Inferno Pistols I suppose could work fluff-wise for Raven Guard... It's a bit of a grey area for me that one, as it's not overtly BA (who's to say the Raven Guard haven't developed similar tech) but I'm not too sure to be honest...

    And thank you for your suggestion regarding how to expand Although this army wouldn't really be going any higher than about this points level As I hopefully plan to use some of my current models too (which incidentally, is why I suggested Sternguard to the above poster, as I have a Death-watch-Sternguard unit already built, which would fit happily in any marine army I do as Sternguard due to their non-chapter nature)

    Thank you both

  6. #5
    Member nat01's Avatar
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    no worries, though one note on something you said, don't forget that the combi-weapon on a scout sarge actually his on 3s as they have higher ws and bs than scout troopers(everyone i play forgets this and just rolls him with the rest of the squad, when he should have a different coloured die at least

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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Scouts by themselves aren't going to win a battle. What you might try instead is two Assault squads and a Scout biker squad with beacon. This gives you both a good DoA deepstrike and a charging unit on Turn 2.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Thank you for all your kind comments everyone

    As a matter of interest, themes and chapters aside - how viable is a full scout (or predominantly scout/scout heavy) army? It's just while I am currently happy with my Power Armoured marine army, after I bought a unit of scouts (the actual models) to go along with them, I pretty much fell in love with the models as they just seem to have loads more character than their power armoured battle brothers - so I was just wondering whether they'd be a viable build for an army, and if so, what points cost (I was thinking 500 to save cash, as i'd have to buy all of the new models).

    I know I'd have to include a Power Armoured Captain, but that's ok really - as 1) I have no choice, and 2) The 10th Company of a Chapter is usally made entirely of scouts anyway, but still has a captain in there to guide 'em along, so fluff wise it works too.

    Thanks

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    Member nat01's Avatar
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    there was someone on the bolter and chainsword who was determined to prove to everyone that an all scout army was competative and could play against harder lists. and to an extent he proved it right, but in order to overcome the scouts shortcommings he did have to rely on special characters adding some oomph to the squads. it is an uphill battle and i wouldnt expect a high win rate but it has potential to play well, id just not count on it for tourneys and the like, just for fun...

  10. #9
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackadder View Post
    Thank you for all your kind comments everyone

    As a matter of interest, themes and chapters aside - how viable is a full scout (or predominantly scout/scout heavy) army? It's just while I am currently happy with my Power Armoured marine army, after I bought a unit of scouts (the actual models) to go along with them, I pretty much fell in love with the models as they just seem to have loads more character than their power armoured battle brothers - so I was just wondering whether they'd be a viable build for an army, and if so, what points cost (I was thinking 500 to save cash, as i'd have to buy all of the new models).

    I know I'd have to include a Power Armoured Captain, but that's ok really - as 1) I have no choice, and 2) The 10th Company of a Chapter is usally made entirely of scouts anyway, but still has a captain in there to guide 'em along, so fluff wise it works too.

    Thanks
    As the above poster said, I think a full Scout based army will struggle to be competitive without breaking your Raven Guard theme. Remember: the Raven Guard use Scouts extensively, but they by no means rely solely on them. In fact, despite the Raven Guard's stereotypical reliance on Scouts, Assault Marines, and Drop Pods, you can feasibly include anything in your army and still call them Raven Guard. They are one of the original Space Marine Legions; not to mention, Deliverance is a small forge world in its own right, so they definitely have access to pretty much everything the Space Marine armoury can throw out.

    I would just include a heavy Scout element in your primary force, but power armour is and will forever be the backbone of a Space Marines force. For the points, Scouts just don't have enough bang for their buck, and it's hard for me to recommend relying on an army where the majority of your force has WS/BS 3. I don't like those odds! I'd almost recommend an Imperial Guard force over a Scout based force. However, they are a fantastic addition to a regular Space Marines force because they fill up elements in the list that regular power armoured squads can't do.

    I think, if you go with a predominantly Scout force, you'll be disappointed time and again by the lack of reliability they provide. Scouts, as a unit, were designed to be a supporting unit in Codex: Space Marines. If you try to break them out of that role, their ability will start to suffer.

    My recommendation is to stick with a regular Raven Guard army, with Tactical Squads as the backbone of the force, and include a slightly heavier-than-normal component of Scouts to complement the force.

    Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions or just want to chat about Raven Guard; I always like to see more Raven Guard players on this forum!

  11. #10
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Scouts as your only troops can work; you just can't have Scouts making up a large percentage of your army, due to their reduced stats and options. I once had the army concept of a Marine Chapter whose implants somehow lost the ability to interface with powered armor, so they ran with Scouts and Terminators. That would work fine for non-tournament games, I'm sure. Another way of doing it is to assemble a really aggressive list and then have 2-3 Landspeeder Storms to secure the gains made by your unstoppable Death Stars.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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