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I will be facing either SM, blood angels and nids. I took lasercannons in the dev due to facing either carnifexs(usually 3 to4 of them) or terminators
Chaplain w/command squad(355pts)
-7 marines bp,ccw, and frag
- sergeant bp,pw,th,frag
- company champion pw,combat shield,bp, frag
- drop pod
- extra armor
8- marines 7 bolters and hb(125 pts)
8- marines 7 bolters and hb(125 pts)
8- marines 7 bolters and hb(125 pts)
8- marines 7 bolters and hb(125 pts)
1-LST AC, HB(80pts)
- TLLC, HB, extra armor,smoke,bulldozer blade(143pts)
10- 6 bolters, 4 LC(290 pts)
1498 pts total
55 models total
imo, dump the command squad for an assault squad and attach the chaplain to that.
I would also opt for the assault squad over the command squad. You can depend on them more in close combat and you wouldn't have to deepstrike them all the time to get them into cc quickly. I would give your tactical squads at least one missle launcher amoung the three. A heavy bolter is great but it doesn't have the tactical flexiblity that a missle launcher has. I would drop 2 of the lascannons off of the devestator list. Since they can only fire at one target, there aren't many tanks that can stand up to 4 let alone 2 lascannon shots without taking damage of some kind. Also a missile launcher will reliablely take down carnifexes, as they can be quite nasty creatures. Dreadnought is a good choice with the assault cannon and venerable. I think that you should be okay against a nid army but you may lack the rhino busting power that you might need against the BA though.
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Hey there, lets see what youve got shall we.........Ok, good to know. Still to expensive in my opinion. BA wont have terminators, it is not worth it for them to field them. The SM may, and carnifexes tend to die just as easily with missile launchers as lascannons. I cant quite remember if they can now have a 2+ save though. If so, and you plan of facing 3-4 of them, you may as well keep the lascannons. Still, I would be much more afriad of an infiltrated brrodlord as he will eat the devastator squad for lunch.Originally Posted by bonekrusherAs has been said, you would be much better of with an assault squad. Secondly, shame on you for not using a powe4rfist in this squad. With the amount of carnifexes you are claiming to be fighting, it is a must have. Go with an assualt squad, 2 plasma pistols and a powerfisted sergeant. Secondly, I believe thats a thunder hammer on your chaplain. First off, he comes with a power weapon for free so you may as well save yourself the points and use it. Secondly, TH;s and PF's on IC's is p[robably the best way to get them killed. You see, IC's fight as seperate squads in close comabt, even with retinues, so forcing them to go last easily results in them being killed before they have any chance to retaliate. Immagibe for a second that one of those carhifexes gets into base to base with the chaplain. Sure they have a bad initiative, but now you have a worse one. This menas the carnifex can kill your chaplain before he ever gets a chance to attack. For a greater explanantion, revied the powerfist tactica linked in the "Index of space marine articles and FAQ's" at the top of the space marine forum.Originally Posted by bonekrusherA drop pod would hurt here. Short range weapons and all, he would spend 2-3 turns just walking up the field where as with a drop pod you have a good chance to have him on the field firing on turn 2 and assualting on turn 3.Originally Posted by bonekrusherThis is a massive waste of points. First off, HB;s are pretty poor weapons to give to marine squads. Secondly as they are heavy wepaons and wont be moving much you really dont need so many marines to guard it. Third, they only have a single purpose and you are paying far to many points for it. Look at the following to get an idea of how to configuyre tactical squads. You can then edit it to your liking. However, I would find a better place for heavy bolters myself.Originally Posted by bonekrusher
1) Fire support squad:
If all you are looking for is a heavy weapon (ie: in your case missile launchers) you certainly dont need 10 men to protect it. 5 power armored marines is more then enough to keep a single heavy weapon safe. Secondly, when you compare the price cost of lascannons in tactical squads to their cost everywhere else we can get them, it becomes clear that tactical squads should always use lascannons as weapons.
2) Heavy fire support:
You have none of these but I figured I would put it in anyways. Basically it is the same as above, except you add 1 more marine and a plasma gun. This gives you an extra ap2 weapon in the squad and as you have 1 more werapon you need to protect, adding one more marine to protect it is a good idea.
3) Combat squad:
I have seen many variations on this, but still belive this to be the best one. A full 10 man squad, with Bp's and CCW's in your case, 1 melta gun as it is an assault weapon and gives the squad diversity, and a powerfisted sergeants for close combat umph. Top this off with a drop pod. Basically you know have a powerful squad dropped exactly where you need it. When they land, they can pop something with the melta gun, or rip into infantry with all the bp's. Either way after that they charge around firing the bp's and meltagun and follow it up with assaults using the "hidden" powerfist.Id honestly drop some of those tactical squads and go with more of these. Much better place for heavy bolters. These are the nids worst nightmare. Nearly impossible to kill on CC and maneuverable enough to stay out of LOS of the few things the nids can fire at it.Originally Posted by bonekrusherNo problem here.Originally Posted by bonekrusherYou stated yur reason for bringing this, I disagree, but I wont argue with you. However, the egenral rule is 1 bolter totting marine per heavy weapon totting marine. you can drop 2 bolter marines from the squad.Originally Posted by bonekrusher
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
[QUOTE=bonekrusher]I will be facing either SM, blood angels and nids. I took lasercannons in the dev due to facing either carnifexs(usually 3 to4 of them) or terminatorsOriginally Posted by bonekrusher
consider a deathwind launcher hear...nids hate em. upgrade the sgt to have a powerfist...think about maybe some speical weapons on the order of flamers, or plasma (nids hate flasmers, others hate plasma) also, id say librarian instaed of chaplin since he has the lovely force weapon for the slaying of Monstorous Creaturesgive this guy a heavy flamer and drop pod and hes amazing...otherwise the AC may be a little to short ranged for him...Originally Posted by bonekrusheralright here is where the list has the biggest problems i think....id either go with 6 man squads with either a missle launcher or lascannon and then plasma guns, or id go witha 10 man squad with a vet. sgt with a powerfist, and a melta gun, flamer or plasma gun... if you go with the 10 man squad, you need to think about mobility for them, either give them a rhino, or drop pod unless you know for a fact that you WILL be assaulted and that the game WONT depend on you seizing objectives or getting men into the enemy deployment zone...if thats teh case then you can probably forego the transport options in favor of more troops....id also tell you to take the trust your battle brothers skill but if youre not using doctrines then thats pointless advice...Originally Posted by bonekrushergood choice, get more of them if you canOriginally Posted by bonekrusher
also, think about assault squads, even if you remove the packs.....a good rule for this type of army is have one unit who can counterattack for either every 500 pts or every 3 units you havedrop the dozer bladeOriginally Posted by bonekrusher
otherwise youre goodalright, im also not a fan of the LC here, a better use of your points would be to put all the heavy bolters here and the LCs in each of the tact squads....or go with missle laucnehrs as they will have a good chance killing everything...also, reduce the size to 6-7Originally Posted by bonekrusher
i play nids too, and ive never lost a game, though some ive come mighty close to loosing...and ill give you some advice...DONT SHOOT AT THE CARNIFEX! thats the whole reason most nid players take them, is to draw fire away from the ones who REALLY matter, the hormagaunts, genestealers and warriors....generally the carnifex wont even get into battle till the 4th turn, and not even then if youre smart about it, just stay 12 in away and you got nothing to worry about, if its a shotty fex, you should still just absorb his fire and focus on killing the little and medium sized ones...
fex's can have a 2+ save, and can also be 5 wo and T 7, the thing that kills fexes best are big marines squads with a powerfist (wounds on 3s...and most Nid players dont upgrade the fexes Initiative so youll be at the ver least striking simo with it...)
OR if you can manage, a libraian with a force weapon.....you need a little luck wounding him, but if you do hes most likely TOAST, 2+ save and everything....(i learned that the hard way to a grey knight grand master) the same goes for hive tyrants though those will prob go before or simo with you...so thier much harder...
failing that, plasma is the next best thing as it ignores even a 2+ armor save and will still wound on a 3 or 4 against a fex....plus marines hate it so id jame as many plasma guns and cannons in the squads as you can...but still leave some las for any marine tanks...
the Land speeder is nice, and is a REALLY good bet for taking down a bunch of nids or marines....id also think about givign your command squad furious charge so they can counter attack...but if youre not gonna give transport to the rest of the marines id take away thier drop pod....no sense in only having one...
best of luck and if you want any more nid killing advice im happy to help (as long as its not my nids your killing)
Last edited by beiltan2003; July 14th, 2005 at 00:10.
ok first things first. the command squad: drop it. waste of point, where the chappy is better teamed up with an assault squad. 8-10 men, vet. sarge with powerfist perhaps, and plasma pistols or flamers depending on who you are facing, flamers for the nids, plasmas for the SMs.
the dread is fine.
drop those heavy bolters. they are wasting points. IMO take full squads and drop one, then take plasma guns in two of them with vet sarge with hidden powerfist, and for the other squad take a melta perhaps with same vet sarge.
like said before, try to get more than one LST, preferably in different squads, so they don't get killed at once.
no need for dozer blades IMO. perhaps switch this out for a whirly if you are facing the nids. there is where extra points for another LST can come in.
hmm. for the devs perhaps switch out the LCs for MLs.
well pretty good list as it is. just tweak it a bit and it will be rocking the competition ^_^ . have fun and happy gaming
Hey guys thanks for the break down and input. I thought I had a good list (doh!).
I will change the following things:
1) I will drop command squad and get assault squad.
2) change 3 squads to 5 man with LC and plasma gun and 1 squad to 10 man bp and ccw, plasma gun and sergeant with bp,pf
3) change the devs to 8 man squad and get 4 ML instead of LC
4) keeping the dread. I might put him in a drop pod and FC
5) dropping the bulldozer blade and smoke and getting printle storm bolter
6) 2 LST with AC, HB
Last list had some typo's the chaplain had th=terminator honors with his regular wpns and the command squad sergeant was supposly a pf not pw but does not matter I have change the list(heheh).
Last edited by bonekrusher; July 14th, 2005 at 13:01.