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I'm currently restarting my old Space Wolves army.
I want to have a balanced army but I'm probably only going to fight Tau, Khorne and Deamonslayers.
Now I need tips on how to field my existing models without having to buy to many new models. I am going to buy stuff but I would like to use my existing ones as much as possible.
Yesterday I posted one 1500 army but I've been thinking during the night and have made some changes.
Please make comments
Here it goes...
Rune Priest, Term Armour, Frost Blade, Storm bolter
Bodyguard 4 WG term's with 1 Ass Can, 3 Storm Bolters, 1 Powerfists, 1 PW, 2 Chainfists.
WG Battle Leader, Bike, Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, 4 wolves
Bike + wolves = a really effective combo according to my experience
9 Blood Claws, 7 BP + CCW, 1 PF + BP, 1 PW + BP, Rhino (smoke)
1 WG-Leader, Powerfist, BP
6 Grey Hunters, 5 Bolters + CCW, 1 Melta, Razorback (lascan smoke)
6 Grey Hunters, 5 Bolters + CCW, 1 Melta, Razorback (lascan smoke)
6 Scouts, 3 BP + CCW, 2 BP + PW, 1 PP + CCW
1 WG-Leader, Powerfist, BP
3 Attack Bikes, 3 Heavy bolters
Thats it. I know it's not the ultimate list but what do you think?
Last edited by Ikterus; August 16th, 2005 at 08:17. Reason: Modified list
Won't someone comment the list?
Ok, I am a Space Wolf Player to so you get it from an experienced player (uhum..)
Well Ok, here we go:Ahah! First Problem. What are you doing!!!! Ok thats a bit harsh, I will explain. You are playing 1500 points. you are putting 522 points into you're HQ. thats over a third of the army, something that would proudly be spend on Blood Claws and Grey Hunters.Originally Posted by Ikterus
It's clear you seem to like you're Biker Battle Leader + Wolves. I'm not to fond on bikes, but thats personal. You are only putting to much gadgets on this guy. Unless you're facing stuff like Chaos Marines or Space Marines alot keep you're Super Weapons to yourself. I explain: battle leader: good choice, nothing wrong. 4 Wolves, 4 wounds and 12 attack, Totaly. But all the wargear. You are putting way to much points in there. Belt of Russ is unnessecairy, you already have 4 Wolves worth of cannon fodder. Just put in an Runic Charm and you are protected against hordes, and characters would be eaten alive by your dear puppies already, don;t forget that I said 12 attacks...
For you're Rune Priest, back-up. Unless you're playing 2000+ keep his Termie Armour and his guards at home: Just don't go for overkill. Did you never realised the potential of a that 9 man Blood Claw Squad of you with someone that makes them resilient to charges and shooting the turn they move out of their rhino and then when they are to charge they will strike first because of being in cover (frag grenades only work on charge). That means you are yo unleash 36 attacks with First strike. and thats without the Rune Priest. Just keep him low priced and this combo will pull of great. Always try to keep Space Wolf Characters under 150 points.Lose the PF and Wolf Guard on you're blood claws, out in another Power Weapon and the Rune Priest. You won't want to lose attacks when you can deal 28 normal and 8 Power attacks wiht first strike from one squad. Thats even a bit of over-kill on my Blood Angel enemies.Originally Posted by Ikterus
You might want to bulk out you're Grey Hunters a little, and put in both avaible powerfists in both units, to max out their ability to receive charges. Because that seems as what you want them to do for giving using True Grit. And don't think I'm negative now, they rock at it. Personaly I drop the Razorbacks, they are way to pricy if you can go with Rhino's. But its better to drop these guys in Battle with 2 Drop Pods. For 30 points each unit, there is no need to purchase expensive tanks and you will get a deep strike ability for both units even when the mission not normaly allows Deep Strike. Thats asking for trouble codex designerNothing to mension here, I think Scouts are a perfect close combat unit for they are underrated like hell!, they can mop up with the enemy to give them some heavy destraction in profit of you're costy Rhino and Bikers. (maybe even drop the guys in the rhino in a drop pod also.) When you O.B.E.L., you can reinforce you're the Dropping Grey Hunters. Also if you do decide to bring those termies of you to war someday teleport them next to the assaulting scouts: "Da silly scouta boyz cant hit dah mob, HAHAHA. *FFLLSS* O NO!!!!! TERMIES, RUN !!!!!!" you've ever seen an running Orc mob before, only to be wiped up by a bunch of SCouts??? I do, a lot :cool:Originally Posted by IkterusAgain, Up to you again, I just don;t like bikes. 150 points on 3 quite fragile (I know they move 12", can shoot on move and have 5 toughness, but 1 death is a Bike less) Heavy Bolters. I would leave these guys at home and take another Blood Claw Squad.Originally Posted by IkterusI think its quite good list overal, but just to high on wargear and low on models. Taking another Blood Claw instead of the Bikes seem quite handy to me. And I just don't see these guys take down 150 points of opponents, or seem to be capable of making sure that you're Rhino/Razorback don't get eaten up.Originally Posted by Ikterus
I like to spread my chances. Only 1 capable Termie or Blood Claws Squad issn't enough in my opinion.
I hope you post you any changes you make to you're list. Hope I made most of you're uncertanies correct now. Feel free to reply at my post too. And have fun with you're army!
You make good suggestions.
To much points in wargear... I do that alot... Point taken.
I'll keep the WG Battleleader with bike. Just spend less on him.
I like my termies but maybe I have to ditch them... hm...
I'll keep the attackbikes. I like them.
What about drop pods(DP)? I thought you had to depoly your whole army in DPs, all or nothing. And then I could'nt use bikes and such..?
And teleport? SW can't teleport can they?
I'll be back with revised armylist.
Nope, the Sons of russ can't teleport, but with the new rules for drop pods you can be a real meany:
You can deep strike with you're drop pod units, even if mission normaly not allows it. They cost 30 points. Av of 12 al around, BS2 (yes BS, it sucks, but the guy can shoot with range:12" S5 AP 6 heavy 1, large blast.)
That is nice, but you can stuff in 10 marines, 5 termies or even a Dreadnought.
Do you know how scary a deep striking venerable (or regulair) dreadnought is!!! Just give those guys extra armour, to make sure they can aussault next turn, or also give them smoke to pop when they arive (you lose the effect of the assault cannon though)
and another thing. The thing can't scatter into oblivion. When it scatters, but it woiuld be taken into a squad (friendly or opposite) or into impassible terrain they normaly would be destroyed. But now they won;t. Cause when they would, they just sit still 1" before they would land in da bad place.
But you have to own a DP model? And they are only sold by Forge world? Sounds tricky...
Maybe a Venerable Dreadnought is worth it, you will be cheaper of than with the bike guy. (or you take him as a second elite.)
Make is as this: Venerable dreadnought, extra armour (you don;'t want smoke launchers, cause this baby hits on a 2+, wounds on 2+, well, just...
Then on his aussault next turnif he survives, what he does a lot, at least you're precious squads won't get shot up) Shoot his assault cannon empty again (also great for destroying light vehicles) and then charge in a squad (preferably not the one you shot at) Also it might be wise not to run in at Powerfists. And if you do, and take the dread as a HQ he will be like an Indipendant Character and able to first kill the power fist, and next round zoom in on everything else
have fun with you're droppings. But don;t expect the drop pods to hit anything when they shout, its just a nice extra .
Overall Ikterus, you have a fairly decent list that I would just recommend making a few changes to that would make it much more effective.
First, limit your HQ. Although they are a really powerful unit, your Rune Priest and accompanying WG terminators eat up way too many points for the size of game in question. Trust me, I used to run a WL in Term. armour w/ bodyguard. I recently switched to a Rune Priest in runic armour and an extra blood claws pack. Since I've made the switch, its been alot more effective. Also, putting a rune priest in terminator armour is generally a bad idea. A Rune Priest is best used at the head of one of your packs of blood claws. His ability to use Storm Caller to shield them from the worst of enemy fire, as well as giving them moving cover (essentially) makes an already potent unit even more powerful. This is going to be especially true if you are fighting Tau....They will shoot you to pieces until you can get to CC. Once you get there, you will totally own them, but you're going to get hurt doing it. A Rune Priest might be able to help eliminate that.
The Wolf Guard Battle Leader on the bike is more of a personal choice. Personally, I dont really care for bikes all that much, but its up to you.
As far as wargear goes on both of them, I dont really see the issue. A Frost Blade is probably one of the best CC weapons available in the game. Since most of our characters strike before enemy units, your looking at a character with 6 attacks on the charge (more than likely), striking with a power weapon that hits on 3+ and wounds on 2+. If you master-craft it, then you can reroll one miss per assault phase.....pretty good odds on causing major damage to opponents. The Belt of Russ is a good idea too....adds an invul save to your BL. The HQ may be expensive, but its a balancing act. To be totally honest SW HQ units are far superior (IMHO) to most other SM HQ units (the exception here being the new SM chaplain).
The main problem with your list is that you are too light on troops units. Let me explain. With the focus of the chapter on CC, you need a large number of warm bodies in order to survive to close combat. Also, you only have one unit of Blood Claws, a unit type that will usually win the game for you if employed correctly. They are one of the few units that in my experience can take on beserkers sucessfully (especially with a rune priest and Wolf Guard leader). That said, I would lose the Rhino. Now, I know Im going to get flamed for this, but with the Blood Claws, their strength is in numbers. They can take up to 15 members in a squad, plus a WG leader, plus a special character. Thats 17 models in the unit. That size of a unit would allow you to take 3 pf/pw, plus a pf on the wgpl, and your inevitable pw on the character. If you have your rune priest here, with a frost blade, you are looking at the following attacks on the charge: 48 regular CC attacks, 16 power fist attacks (3 pf in squad, plus pack leader), and 6 str+1 PW attacks from the priest. Total of 70 attacks on the charge. Trust me, this will be enough to put almost any squad on the ground, especially if you manuevered your squad well enough to get all the opponents within your kill zone.
You will note that I disagreed with Wolfbanes in regards to what type of power CCW to have in your unit. I will always recommend power fists. Although power weapons allow you to strike right away, Power fists will allow you to take on stronger units (i.e. monstrous creatures, tanks) that regular weaponry, including PW will just bounce off of. Although they strike last in CC, PF's are not really vulnerable...simply remove any casualties from models that have already gotten in their licks. That powerfist will still strike, and likely instant kill any unit it hits (wounds on 2+).
Same thing goes for your Grey Hunters. I personally dont care for Razorbacks because they do 2 things. First, they have to stay where they are at to have any hope of fulfilling their role as a HW platform. This contradicts their role as a transport. Again, your goal with Grey Hunters is going to be to get them to the point where you have the option of engaging in close combat. In a regular SM army, they're fine, cause the goal is to sit back and shoot, and allow a few units to go do close combat. SW however will play a little different. Bulk up your squads to the full 10 allowed. Make sure to get at least one pf and one pw in there, for the same reason as with your blood claws. Also, think about adding a WGPL to them. Personally in 1500, I only have one Grey Hunters squad. I think Blood Claws fill out the troops selection much more effectively, and the Hunters are better in a support role, mopping up anything that the Claws leave behind.
I would also drop the attack bikes. A personal feel here, but I dont like bikes all that much. I would use their points, and some of the points you freed up from your HQ to purchase a long fangs squad with 2 ML's and 2 lascannons. This will give you a good anti-armour and anti-infantry punch. On a good roll, you could probably take down 2 tanks a turn (thanks to the Pack leaders ability). This is a really good strength to have against Tau with the kind of power they have in their tanks.
Finally onto your Wolf Scouts. There are two schools of thought on the Wolf Scouts: Strong close combat unit, and infiltrating tank/rearguard busters. Personally, I belong to the second school. Here I would recommend dropping the PL from this squad. There is a reason for this. I usually run a 4 member scout squad with 1 plasma pistol/PW, 1 Bolt Pistol/PW, 1 Bolt Pistol/CCW, and a meltagun, and meltabombs on the whole unit. The squad runs me 104 points. With it, I make their points back in 90+% of the games I play. This is because i pop in, annhilate a tank or enemy tactical squad, and move on. Usually at this point, I get killed by massed enemy fire, but I dont care cause I've done my damage, and my assault units are now closer to the enemy units. If you add a Pack leader to them, in many cases, you'll have to kill one unit, then manage to kill another one before you die to earn your points back. The composition of the equipment on the pack leader is fine...i would just put him on a different unit.
Well, thats pretty much all i got for ya. Any questions, feel free to throw them at me.
Wallace! Thank you for your most insightful reply.
I have indeed realised that I need more infantry an especially the young and eager kind like BCs. The thing is that I dont have the time to paint all the little fellows... Soon I'll have enough for two ten man squads of BCs but that is my limit in painting for a while...
I agree with most of what you say (other than your apparent dislike for bikes ) and have been thinking a lot the last couple of days...
I am currently forming a new army list which I think will be more successful. I'll post it soon.
There are some things I'd like to hear your opinions on before I make it final though.
I don't like the old guys with the scary teeth and was thinking about a predator instead (the one with a bunch of las cannons). What do you think about that?