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Hi there, i'm starting a marines army and the chapter that appealed to me was the Dark Angels, but i didn't like their green armour so i decided to do them in pre-heresy colours.(Yes that also means the deathwing termies as well)
Before you post replys you should read this as well:http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapter...s-faq-v4-1.pdf
So here goes
Sword of Secrets
Iron Halo (i know this isn't allowed in a D.A army but remember its a PRE-HERESY army so Lion El'Jonson would still be alive, and i've charged myself the same amount of points as if it were a Lion Helm)
Command Squad(5 marines)
Company Champion(would there still be companies in pre-heresy times???)
I think that the total is correct, but on the other hand the list is already illegal with the Lion Helm/Iron Halo thing. What should i do to get round this?
Any comments welcome.
Ok looks like you need some help.....I have no idea what your talking about with the Lion Helm. I dont remember anything like that from codex Dark Angels. Are you using the Second Edition DA codex? Next, both the plasma pistol and the artificer armor need to go. First the pistol, why pay a marines worth of points for a shot here or there? Its simply not worth it. Especially when you add in the fact that he can hurt himself. Next the AA. He should be part of a squad, witch means you can devote wounds from shooting to other emmbers of the squad without endangering your HQ, in close combat, you only need fear powerweapons and of course they ignore 2+ just like 3+. AA armor is a lot of points that could be better used elsewhere.Originally Posted by Sober Irishman
Last but not least, you should be using a CHaplain (for CC) or a Librarien (for shooty) as oposed to the master. Because we can make any squad we want fearless, his leadership 10 ability is of little to no use to us. Doubly so for you becuase you have payed for terminator honours on all your sergeants. Ill address that in a moment as well.
My Suggestion: Switch up for a chaplain.9 times out of 10, a command squad is a waste of points that can be better done by something else. This is one of those times. First off, your command squad is assault based. As such, you have made 2 mistakes. 1) the apothecary. He costs a lot of points and his abilities can not be used when he is in close combat. So you have a character who i useless in close combat, in a close combat oriented squad. you see the problem. 2) Too small. The squad is far to small to really be effective in close combat. You need more men. The drop pod is a minor problem as well as it will leave you open to shooting for a turn. Still, its better then walking your command squad up the field.Originally Posted by Sober Irishman
My Suggestion: Get a 10 man squad with powerfisted sergeant and 2 plasma pistols to go with your chaplain.Desperately needs a second assault cannon.Originally Posted by Sober IrishmanThe venerable on this is one of the places you can cut back on points if you need to find some. It isnt really necessary.Originally Posted by Sober IrishmanOk, first off, 10 men are far to many to protect a single heavy weapon. Optimumly, you will be firing it every turn to make the most of it, as such you have a bunch of marines sitting here doing nothing. Next, these would be better off as lascannons. Longer range, higher strength, no gets hot. And seeing as how a skilled oponent can place his models so you can at most cover 1 and 1 partial with the blast marker (ie: 1.5 hits) you arent getting much out of it. The only real benefit is when units deepstrike as the must be placeed as close as possible to each other. Last but not least, why in gods name did you pay for terminator honours (vet sergeants) if you arent going to give them any weaponry? Really, why spend the points for an extra attack if they have no way of making it a good one?Originally Posted by Sober Irishman
A) 5 man lascannonteam for anti-vehicle support
b) 6 man plasma squad (gun and cannon) for multi purpose fire support
c) 10 man tac squad with melta gun and pfisted sergeant for close combat support. Most commonly used with a drop pod. The melta gun is important as it is an assualt weapon and will be able to be fired the same turn you plan on charging.Good, add 2 marines and 2 plasma pistols and attach the chappy to this. It will do far far more for you then the HQ and command squad you currently have set up.Originally Posted by Sober IrishmanOk, im glad to see you have the proper ammount of models here, but im going to caution you against the plasma cannons. First off, they are expensive. Secondly, they have a short range (well shorter then other options). These squads can be devastating, but are also easier for your oponent to circumvent.Originally Posted by Sober IrishmanThis would be far better off with HB sponsons. Consider: in order to fire more then the TL lascannon turrent, you need to stay still. This means that either a) you will need to move your t ank into LOS of something and your oponent will have to be nice and leave it there for you OR b) your opoenent will have to be stupid and place something in its LOS. Now I dont know about you, but I think banking on your oponent to make mistakes is not a good way to win games. The TL lascannon will take care of a vehicle, with HB sponsons at least the tank will have extra firepower VS light armor or side/rear armor and the ability to dish it out to infantry.Originally Posted by Sober Irishman
Now that we have gone over what youve decided to use Id like to say that I am apalled you dont have any speeders in your list. As DA you have the very best speeders in the game and for the same price as what every other marine commander pays for the AC + HB variant, you get a jink save. How can you pass up vehicles with invulnerable saves? They are one of our most devastating weapons and as a DA player, you have the best of them. Make use of that.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
I figured that this would be a good oppurtunity to discuss Devastator weapons versus Tactical squad weapons.Originally Posted by Sober Irishman
Heavy Bolter: (insert cost of a SM here) pts in Devastator squads, 1/3 the same cost I see not why you should pay 3 times the cost for a heavy bolter in devastator squads as you would in Tactical squads. Heck, the only place I use heavy bolters is Land Speeders, and since I usually play against SM armies, I replace it with a multi-melta.
Plasma cannon: slightly less than twice the amount of points than in a tactical squad, but costs over 2x the cost of a SM.
Lascannon: same as above
Multi-melta: Rather low range, A missile launcher would be better
Missile launcher: the cheapest weapon that isn't a rip off. Yeah, you could get 4 missile launchers in tactical squads for half the cost, but Tactical squads should have lascannons or plasma cannons anyway. 4 Krak missile launchers will usually kill a dreadnought, so 2 turns worth of killing will get their points back.This is the only other unit where I think the heavy bolters are good (for aforementioned reasons), but I don't have any predators, which Is why I didn't include it on the "list" of units I use heavy bolters with.Predator Annihilator
Personally, however, I find Dreadnoughts to be much more effective than Predators, and they tend to be less of a fire magnet.I have no idea where you got the idea that DA couldn't have Iron Halo, so with the remaining 6 pts and the 15 pts saved from the Halo, get the terminator squad another assault cannon.I think that the total is correct, but on the other hand the list is already illegal with the Lion Helm/Iron Halo thing. What should i do to get round this?
Put a space after the 8, so it looks like this:
Devastators (8 )
Yeah, that's basically all.
Last time i checked, you can't take plasma cannons in tac squads.
Signatures: Why bother?
you checked a looooong time ago man
the new codex is out
Do you guys think i should put some bikes in as well as the Land Speeders?
the land speeder tornado is comon for DA players i see lots of them use it