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  1. #1
    Member Imperial Henchmen's Avatar
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    2000 IG Grenadiers - Friendly

    Hi all. I’ve been playing the Guard for quite a few years now and for a little while lately I’ve wanted to put together a Grenadier/Storm trooper army and after reading Diggums Hammer’s “How to set up an IG Grenadier Army “ I finally decided to go ahead and do it. I can save you all some time and point out a few flaws before you read the list. I’ve opted to forgo a vox network in order to make a hard hitting HQ so the armies leadership is not too high. Mostly 8. Also my Leman Russ is fitted with a hull mounted las cannon instead of a heavy bolter. This is due to simple economics; I already have it made with the las cannon and would rather not buy another one, at lest not right now. Anyway, all comments and criticisms are welcome and thanks in advance.

    DOCTRINES:
    Grenadiers
    Storm Troopers
    Carapace Armor

    HQ:
    Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, power fist, plasma pistol
    4x guardsmen all w/ flamers
    all w/ Carapace Armor
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    232pt

    TROOPS:
    9x Grenadiers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    213pt

    9x Grenadiers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    213pt

    9x Grenadiers 2w/ grenade launchers
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    209pt

    ELITES:
    9x Storm Troopers 1w/ grenade launchers 1w/ plasma gun
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    128pt

    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt

    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt

    FAST ATTACK:
    3x Sentinels each w/ las cannon
    165pt

    3x Sentinels each w/ las cannon
    165pt

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Leman Russ w/ hull las cannon, HB sponsons
    165pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt

    TOTAL: 2000pt

    That’s 65 Infantrymen and 13 pieces of armor.

    I was considering putting in a hellhound instead of a second basilisk but well over half the armies I play are SM or CSM and there are a few Necron players at my local GW too. So, I figured a second bassie would be more beneficial.

    Last edited by Imperial Henchmen; October 27th, 2005 at 14:12.
    "Official! The graves of warriors who have given thier lives for the Emperor now outnumber the stars themselves."

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  3. #2
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    thats a lot of storm troopers.

    This is a list where I actually think that sentinels are entirely appropriate, but here's a suggestoin: make them into individuals ina squad, take three for your fast attack, and then two more in the head quarters, that way if one gets immobilised the rest don't have to stay static.

    more anti-tank needed

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial Henchmen
    DOCTRINES:
    Grenadiers
    Storm Troopers
    Carapace Armor
    You don't need storm troopers with grenadieers. New

    Grenadieers
    Drop Troops
    Carapace Armor
    Not sure, but I think there is a sentinel doc.
    I think you might save enough to buy a commissar for the main group
    HQ:
    Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, power fist, plasma pistol
    4x guardsmen all w/ flamers
    all w/ Carapace Armor
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    232pt
    Sounds good.
    TROOPS:
    9x Grenadiers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    213pt
    make these grenade launchers
    9x Grenadiers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    213pt
    good
    9x Grenadiers 2w/ grenade launchers
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    209pt
    make these flamers
    ELITES:
    9x Storm Troopers 1w/ grenade launchers 1w/ plasma gun
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    128pt
    2 plasma guns
    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt
    Meltas
    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt
    good
    FAST ATTACK:
    3x Sentinels each w/ las cannon
    165pt
    good
    3x Sentinels each w/ las cannon
    165pt
    MultiLasers or Autocannons
    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Leman Russ w/ hull las cannon, HB sponsons
    165pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt




    This balences out your army more. I'd say break up the sentinel so that that autocannons are in one group and the lascannons are 1 FA choice each with the other going to the HQ.
    Last edited by Forger of Civilization; October 30th, 2005 at 00:30.
    Three Companies of the 26th Vinancium
    143rd Airborne Badgers (99.9% done)
    159th Corsair Rifles (35% done))
    69th Armored Wall Busters (95% done)

    Total 197 men, 12 tanks, 4 Heavy Artillery Pieces

  5. #4
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    I’ve opted to forgo a vox network in order to make a hard hitting HQ so the armies leadership is not too high. Mostly 8.
    Nothing wrong with that, your army is just about as resolute as a Space Marine force (unless they take a Force Commander), so no big "flaw" there.

    Also my Leman Russ is fitted with a hull mounted las cannon instead of a heavy bolter. This is due to simple economics; I already have it made with the las cannon and would rather not buy another one, at lest not right now.
    Just something for you to mull over, but you could change that lascannon to a heavy bolter without having to buy a new one. Its actually a fairly simple conversion. Just use a pair of clippers or a sharp hobby knife to remove the barrel of the lascannon (just the protruding part, not the part actually set into the recessed area that can pivot), smooth it out with some filing and some putty if need be, and glue in a heavy bolter in its place (a left-over side sponson would be the best fit, though a heavy bolter from the Heavy Weapons Squad is just about as good). Just thought I'd point that out, its not too hard to do and it would make your Russ more efficient.

    Now onto the list.....

    HQ:
    Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, power fist, plasma pistol
    4x guardsmen all w/ flamers
    all w/ Carapace Armor
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    232pt
    Not a bad unit, but not exceptional. The problem with the power fist is that officers can be individually targetted by the opponent, so chances are your officer is probably gonna die before he (sorta) hammers someone with that fist. If you want a close combat unit, I'd go with a power weapon instead. Then you have a decent (not good, but not terrible) initiative. As for the flamers, my preference would be plasma or melta guns. Melta gives you some more anti-tank firepower and would allow you to fire before charging into close combat, whereas 9 plasma shots (4 rapid firing guns and the plasma pistol) would definitely put a hurting on nearly any unit in the game. Flamers on the other hand don't do nearly as much damage to MEQs, who you mentioned are the bulk of your adversaries.

    TROOPS:
    9x Grenadiers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    213pt

    9x Grenadiers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    213pt

    9x Grenadiers 2w/ grenade launchers
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke
    209pt
    These squads all look pretty good. If you've got decent conversion skills you could consider going with something other than a multilaser in the turret (Imperial Armour has some nice options), but that's your choice. The melta is great to give you fast moving anti-tank, the plasma is excellent against MEQ. However I wouldn't use grenade launchers unless you simply don't have the models for anything else and your opponent won't let you sub. They're really just not very good, and the improved range doesn't help much since you probably won't disembark more than 12" away from something you'd like to shoot out. Personally I'd go with another 2 plasma squad instead.

    Another thing to consider is that a couple extra grenadiers (and their hellguns) won't contribute much either way to your effective firepower, so if you need a few points here and there, you could cut any or all of these squads down to 9 or even 8 men total, without hurting yourself any. And those points could be used to add a heavy stubber to your Chimeras, giving them additional firepower. A Grenadier costs 10 points and comes with a hellgun that's Strength 3 AP 5 rapid fire (and that's only when they're disembarked from the Chimera), or you can use 12 points to buy the stubber that's Strength 4, AP 6 Heavy 3, and can fire each turn and has a 36" range. Something to consider.

    ELITES:
    9x Storm Troopers 1w/ grenade launchers 1w/ plasma gun
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    128pt

    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt

    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt
    These squads aren't bad, but they're not exceptional. Deep-striking Stormies are usually best for targetting enemy armor or vulnerable units, in which case you minimize the squad size (to save points and avoid throwing bodies at targets they can't hurt) and maximize their firepower. The melta squad is good, the plasma squad isn't bad, but the 1 grenade/1 plasma is pretty weak. In place of at least that squad (and maybe more than one if you purchase Veterans), I'd go with a Hardened Veteran squad. Carapace Armor would be a fairly decent purchase for this squad, you'd get an extra special weapon, and the option for a heavy weapon. The cost would be comparable to the Stormies, and the only thing lost is the AP 5 for the hellguns (which doesn't help against MEQs anyway). Plus with the Drop Troops doctrine you could deep strike them as well. If you replaced all three stormy squads here with Veterans than you could simply swap "Allow Storm Troopers" for "Veterans" and you wouldn't have to worry about accomodating other doctrines.

    FAST ATTACK:
    3x Sentinels each w/ las cannon
    165pt

    3x Sentinels each w/ las cannon
    165pt
    In this sort of list, lascannon sentinels are more appropriate. Ideally your opponent will focus anti-tank firepower on your battle tanks or Chimeras, letting the Sentinels survive a couple turns. Personally though, I wouldn't go with more than four or five at the absolute most. The problem is that if they're formed into squadrons they become a lot more vulnerable to enemy fire, and it becomes even easier (truly saying something, as sentinels are extremely fragile to begin with) to take them out. One sentinel in each Fast Attack slot and one or two at most in the Command Platoon, and you should be alright for anti-tank firepower. With 4 lascannon-equipped sentinels, even at BS 3 you should average two hits per turn with them. As long as you pick your targets carefully and also make good use of your melta-equipped squads, you shouldn't have too much trouble dealing with vehicles.

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Leman Russ w/ hull las cannon, HB sponsons
    165pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt
    Not bad at all. The Bassies will give you pretty good fire support. One thing I'd consider though is that only having one Russ on the board only gives your opponent one scary armor threat to deal with, then they can focus all their anti-tank power on destroying your Chimeras and Sentinels. But if you have two Russes and only one Bassie, you still get some supporting fire and it takes more effort from your opponent to destroy your battle tanks before they can move on to weaker targets. Once again its up to you, but a Leman Russ with 3 heavy bolters is only 30 points more than a Basilisk with indirect fire, and you get better armor, two more heavy bolters, a slightly weaker ordance blast, and you keep your opponent from targetting the more vulnerable vehicles for longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forger of Civilization
    You don't need storm troopers with grenadieers. New
    Grenadieers
    Drop Troops
    Carapace Armor
    Not sure, but I think there is a sentinel doc.
    I think you might save enough to buy a commissar for the main group
    To take Storm Troopers as Elites choices, you have to have "Restricted Unit: Storm Troopers." To take up to 3 squads as Troop choices, you have to have "Grenadiers." To take them as both Troops and Elites, you have to have both doctrines. And nope, no Sentinel doctrine. And a commissar wouldn't do this list much good as each unit is essentially on its own for leadership purposes.
    "I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."
    ~Lord Yossanrion
    "Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."
    ~Quick
    "Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"
    ~Diggum's Hammer

  6. #5
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    I refer you to the recently released IG FAQ. I myself ran into this problem and solved it this way.
    Three Companies of the 26th Vinancium
    143rd Airborne Badgers (99.9% done)
    159th Corsair Rifles (35% done))
    69th Armored Wall Busters (95% done)

    Total 197 men, 12 tanks, 4 Heavy Artillery Pieces

  7. #6
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    Wow, it’s nice to finally see some feedback on this list. As far as not needing the Storm troopers doctrine I’m pretty sure you do need it to take ST as elites. Either way I’m only using three doctrine points as is so to be on the safe side I’ll leave it in. To help with anti-tank I've added a few more meltaguns. Here are a few modifications.

    DOCTRINES:
    Grenadiers
    Storm Troopers
    Carapace Armor

    HQ:
    Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, power soword, plasma pistol, frag grenade
    4x guardsmen all w/ Plasma Guns, frag grenades
    all w/ Carapace Armor
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke, heavy stubber

    (As a side note: in keeping with an all ST list I specifically gave this squad carapace armor so they could be represented by Kasrkin models. I don’t think this would be a problem to anybody. Let me know what you think)

    Sentinel w/ lascannon
    305pt

    TROOPS:
    9x Grenadiers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke, stubber
    225pt

    9x Grenadiers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke, stubber
    225pt

    9x Grenadiers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    mounted in chimera w/ hull HB, ML turret, EA, smoke, stubber
    225pt

    ELITES:
    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ plasma guns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt

    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt

    9x Storm Troopers 2w/ meltaguns
    Sergeant w/ hell pistol, CCW
    Deep Strike
    130pt

    FAST ATTACK:
    Sentinels each w/ lascannon
    55pt

    Sentinels each w/ lascannon
    55pt

    Sentinels each w/ lascannon
    55pt

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Leman Russ w/ hull HB, HB sponsons (I’ll think I will try cutting off the lascannon)
    155pt

    Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire
    125pt

    Leman Russ demolisher w/ hull lascannon, plasma sponsons
    185pt

    TOTAL: 2000pt

    That’s 65 Infantrymen and 11 pieces of armor.

    I want to keep all my infantry models as ST for fluff reasons. I was thinking that Kasrkin’s would represent the grenadiers while the original ST models represent the elites. BTW, Sokhar while taking away a few grenadiers would not take much away from my firepower it would take away at their ability to hold an objective. So for that reason I’d rather leave them at full squads of ten. And thanks for the feedback guys.
    "Official! The graves of warriors who have given thier lives for the Emperor now outnumber the stars themselves."

  8. #7
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    I've seen the Imperial Guard FAQ, and its really a simple matter when you look at what the FAQ is trying to say and applying some common sense. The FAQ states that you don't have to purchase "Restricted Unit: Storm Troopers" and then Grenadiers to use Grenadiers. IE if you only want to use a squad of Storm Troopers as a Troops choice, you just purchase Grenadiers, no Restricted Unit doctrine required. However, if you want to purchase Storm Trooper squads as an Elites choice, you MUST have the Restricted Unit doctrine. That's quite logical. Common sense also says that if it were like you suggested, that Grenadiers allows for Stormies as both Elites and Troops, then there would be no point in "Restricted Unit: Storm Troopers," now would there? Because everyone would just purchase Grenadiers to get Stormies in both sections. They are two different doctrines for a reason, one applies to the Elites category (where they can have deep strike or infiltrate), and one applies to the Troops category (where they're just meant to represent better equipped guardsmen and thus don't have the infiltrate/deep strike options).
    "I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."
    ~Lord Yossanrion
    "Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."
    ~Quick
    "Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"
    ~Diggum's Hammer

  9. #8
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    Nice list! I won't add to what Sokhar already mentioned, but the second list is much better.

    The only thing that I would change/add is if you are going to pay the points for the Sgts, you might as well add the five pts for the power weapon. I either take the vet Sgt with weapon or no sgt at all. It doesn't matter for LD, and the Veg Sgt without a power weapon is just another Grenadier with shorter ranged shooting. I will typically take them with my Melta Squads in case I do assault, and typically not with my Plasma Squads.

    It is definatly worth it to Mod the HB on the Russ, and it isn't too difficult. There are times when I shoot the three HBs instead of a Battle Cannon, eg one or two MEQs in good cover are more likely to be dispatched by the Heavy Bolters than the Battle Cannon, especially if you move.

    Welcome to Grenadiers!
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    alright, I only have a few critiques:

    the thing you are goin to have trouble with is an army that is stacked on anti-tank. All those chimeras would get blasted, and then your tanks. that leaves you with very little gun-line type firepower, and almost no mobile fire power. basically ruining your list.

    I personally don't suggest stacking your hq like that, you don't need the leadership, but every model that gets hit is a big loss, no cannon fodder. And frags are unneccesary, you shouldn't be charging people in cover, you should be pie-plating them.

    good list overall

  11. #10
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    No problem with giving your normal Guardsmen carapace and representing them with Kasrkin, sounds good to me. As for the revised list, looks pretty good. A couple general suggestions/comments:

    * Frag grenades for your command squad costs points, does it not? I'd lose them since this squad is no longer assault-oriented (with it having 4 plasma guns that you can't shoot before charging into hand-to-hand). Saves a few points.
    * Very true about fewer men not holding an objective as well. I humbly submit that I overlooked that point, good call.
    * With your meltaguns, I honestly think you could probably do with a few less. You have 16 special weapons in your list, 8 being melta and 8 being plasma. Plus you have 4 lascannons. Probably enough anti-tank ability there, I'd switch one of the Troop Grenadier squads over to plasma, leaving the Grenadiers as two plasma squads and one melta, and the Elites being one plasma and two melta.
    * Since you pointed out that you have doctrine slots to spare, I have to stress that you should definitely use Hardened Veteran squads over Storm Troopers in your Elites slot. A full 10-man squad of Veterans, given Carapace Armor, and 3 special weapons costs 135 points, just five more than your Storm Trooper squads. You get the same ballistic skill, same numbe of men, same armor save, and an additional special weapon (plus the squad's sergeant can take wargear for free, so you could add another weapon in there). You pay five more points and lose out on the AP 5 hellguns, but that special weapon could really help, especially since you play mostly MEQs. Using Drop Troops and Veterans as your two free doctrine slots allows you to take more than one such squad and deep strike them the same as Stormies. Something I'd consider at least for your two melta-equipped Stormy squads, since they could carry an extra weapon into the fray, one additional shot at popping that tank.
    * Finally regarding the Demolisher. Its not a bad tank, it draws attention and it could spearhead an armored column backed up by your Chimeras, Sentinels, and your other Russ. However there's one big problem I have with Demolishers, and its the fact that they have virtually zero ability to provide fire support on the move. Everyone wants to equip a Demolisher with a lascannon and plasma cannon sponsons, and the sponsons would be great if they didn't count as main weapons due to having strength 7. What that means is that a demolisher on the move can fire exactly ONE of its three non-ordance weapons. Meanwhile a standard 3-HB Russ can fire ALL of its non-ordance weaponry as it moves. And unfortunately the Demolisher is forced to move towards the enemy due to the comparatively short range of its cannon. Just something to mull over, there's no real great solution to this problem. GW should give it some sort of rule allowing both sponsons to be fired on the move (would be great, probably won't happen), and the only other real alternative to get decent firepower while moving is to outfit it with all heavy bolters. Which means that you paid 10 more points and traded in 48" of range to get a normal Russ with a more powerful but short-ranged cannon and some slightly heavier armor. That sucks.

    Diggum: he's just listing the Sergeant model, its not an upgraded Veteran Sergeant. Check the point totals. 10 Stormies + 2 special weapons + the cost of deep striking = 130 points. Just thought I'd point that out.
    "I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."
    ~Lord Yossanrion
    "Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."
    ~Quick
    "Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"
    ~Diggum's Hammer

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