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  1. #1
    Junior Member stuckinbermuda's Avatar
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    IG: Doctrines Army 1986 Need help :)

    Experienced IG players please help

    Finally got the list to 2000pts. Thanks Diggums Hammer :w00t:

    All the models are Catachans but I don't want a Catachan army, just tough little green army men Everything is painted primarily in Dark Angel Green. I've collected these models so far because they looked fun to collect, like Ogryns and tanks, now I need to play them.


    Leftover models after making this list:
    (maybe they can be used for something? Possibly with an inquisitor?)
    Chimera
    Leman Russ Battle Tank
    3 ogryns
    Sentinel with Armoured crew compartment and lascannon

    Thanks in advance for your comments and criticisms

    See the updated revised list in the post below


    1st. Post on Librarium Online! (I'm usually on t
    he B&C forums)

    Last edited by stuckinbermuda; November 10th, 2005 at 16:09.

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  3. #2
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Welcome to L.O.

    Our Guard forum is busy, informative, if not opinionated!

    O.K. I think we need to have a look at a couple of things, or this army is going to get creamed.

    First, you have set up this army to be a CC army. Guard that is set up this way will lose. With the upgrades in doctorine points that you have, your troopers are worth more than a Tau Fire warrior, or at least as much. You can get a Ork Slugga boy for 9pts, and he is much better than one of your lads in CC. I try and not make my standard troops much more than "Vanilla" 6pts.

    Unless you are going to play always on a jungle board, get rid of Jungle Fighters.

    Unless you really want to have it for fluff reasons, Get rid of Hardened Fighters.

    Light Infantry is O.K., but I would rather take the Doctorine, Veterans, and have three Vet Squads Infiltrate for free, and have higher BS.

    You can try Ogyrns,:cry: but I think the broad thinking is that they are not a good investment in points or $. If you want a good counter-charge unit go for Rough Riders or get some Grey Knights.

    Special Weapons Squads is the only Doctorine I might keep, but only if I combined it with Drop Troops.

    There are some really good articles in our Article Skicky, one of the best is Hourglass's Doctorine discussion below:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/arti...howarticle=107

    Your Special Weapon squads are counter productive. You have a long range sniper rifle and close range Demolishion Charge in each. Have one squad with three Snipers, and one squad just a Demo-charge.

    First, you need to purchase another HW box set so you can make some more HWs. The strength of regular IG is HWs, and your platoons don't have any minus sniper rifles. Mix it up with ML and HB's, your choice, but get something in them.

    I would also get rid of the Powerfists. IG are so bad in CC that you may never use it combat. I would switch to Power Swords.

    In your platoons I would give each one a HW and SW. Good combos, ML+Plasma, HB+GL. I would never put a flamer or Melta-gun in a troop squad as they are both short ranged.

    The only squad in this entire list I would give Hardened Fighters to is the Flaming Sentinals. Get rid of it on the other Sentinals.

    Your Heavy Support Choices are good, but:

    A Bassie without Indirect Fire is a tin can about to be opened, I HIGHLY recommend it. With it, it is our best HS on big tables

    Your Leman Russ is good, but you can make it better by dropping the Stubber (you can't usually use it), and convert the Hull Lascannon to a Hull HB, and add smoke. You will have a tank that went from 175pts to 158 = 17pts saved.

    Your Demolisher is fine, I would just add smoke.

    The whole point about good IG list is to save points for more guns. Don't make anything more expensive than you have to. For all the points you have in Doctorines, you could have a couple of Hellhounds, get my point?

    I don't mean to be too critical for your first post, just trying to help you out to have a better chance of beating the Enemies of the Emperor!:w00t:
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  4. #3
    Junior Member stuckinbermuda's Avatar
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    Doctrines (HQ)
    Regimental Organisation: Drop Troops
    Skills and Drills: Iron Discipline
    Skills and Drills: Veterans
    Allow Special Weapon Squads
    Allow Rough Riders
    ______________________________________________________________
    Command Platoon (HQ) 412 Pts

    3 Command Squad
    Laspistol and CCW (x3); Drop Trooper

    1 Heroic Senior Officer
    Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon
    Carapace Armour

    1 Veteran
    Close combat Weapon; Laspistol; Standard Bearer

    6 Anti Tank Squad
    Lascannon (x3); Lasguns; Drop Trooper

    6 Mortar Squad
    Mortars (x3); Lasguns; Drop Trooper

    6 Special Weapons Teams
    Lasguns (x3); Sniper Rifle (x3); Drop Trooper

    6 Special Weapons Teams
    Lasguns (x3); Sniper Rifle (x3); Drop Trooper
    _____________________________________________________________
    4 Hardened Veterans (Elites) 118 Pts
    Lascannon; Lasguns (x1); Plasma Guns (x2); Drop Trooper

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant
    Power Fist; Bolter
    Carapace Armour
    Surveyor
    _____________________________________________________________
    4 Hardened Veterans (Elites) @95 Pts
    Lasguns (x1); Grenade Launcher (x1); Meltagun (x2); Drop Trooper

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant
    Laspistol; Power Fist
    Surveyor
    _____________________________________________________________
    4 Hardened Veterans (Elites) 95 Pts
    Lasguns (x1); Grenade Launcher (x1); Meltagun (x2); Drop Trooper

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant
    Laspistol; Power Fist
    Surveyor

    9 Armoured Fist Squad (Troops) 166 Pts
    Lasguns; Flamer

    1 Sergeant
    Laspistol and CCW

    1 Chimera
    Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Bolter
    Smoke Launchers
    Pintle Heavy Stubber
    ____________________________________________________________
    Infantry Platoon (Troops) 245 Pts

    4 Command Squad
    Missile Launcher; Lasguns (x3); Drop Trooper

    1 Junior Officer
    Bolter
    Carapace Armour

    9 Infantry Squad
    Missile Launcher; Lasguns; Plasma Gun; Drop Trooper

    1 Veteran Sergeant
    Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon

    9 Infantry Squad
    Missile Launcher; Lasguns; Plasma Gun; Drop Trooper

    1 Veteran Sergeant
    Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon
    ___________________________________________________________
    9 Rough Riders (Fast Attack) 143 Pts
    Hunting Lances

    1 Rough Rider Veteran Sergeant
    Laspistol; Power Weapon
    Honorifica Imperialis
    ___________________________________________________________
    3 Sentinels (Fast Attack) 120 Pts
    Heavy Flamer; Drop Trooper
    ___________________________________________________________
    3 Sentinels (Fast Attack) 135 Pts
    Multi-Laser; Drop Trooper
    ___________________________________________________________
    1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Support) 158 Pts
    Battle Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter; Heavy Bolter Sponsons
    Smoke Launchers
    ___________________________________________________________
    1 Leman Russ Demolisher (Heavy Support) 188 Pts
    Demolisher Cannon; Hull Lascannon; Plasma Cannon Sponsons
    Smoke Launchers
    ___________________________________________________________
    1 Basilisk (Heavy Support) 125 Pts
    Earthshaker Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter
    ___________________________________________________________
    Models in Army: 99


    Total Army Cost: 2000
    Last edited by stuckinbermuda; November 10th, 2005 at 16:00.

  5. #4
    Junior Member stuckinbermuda's Avatar
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    Wow, very enlightening I'll do some work on this list and re-post it later tonight.

    I'm considering dropping the Hardened Fighters, I'm only using it on the two Sentinels, in favor of Iron Diciplin and upgrading the HQ to Heroic to boost the Leadership of the list. Amazing how much sense something makes when you write it out

    I had forgotten to buy indirect for the Basilisk,

    The whole CC orientated thing was a way to try to get some use out for those Power Fists since I bought the models, thought they looked cool this was now a planned or play tested army, just a random collection of what looked like cool models.

    No problem dropping Hardened Fighters and Jungle Fighters, I'd like to get away from the "Catachan Cliche". They all look like them anyway (

    I wanted to have infiltrating so Veterans is definatly the way to go :yes: I'm going to drop some of my meltas in with them, if that works? I need some suggestion for the size and loadout of the three Hardened Vet Squads. One Melta model spare for each for starters.

    I had to have the Ogryns, they are just gnarly looking, probably a throwback from my Chaos addiction, gotta love those abhumans :x But they can go, they just look like trouble makers on my shelf.

    Drop troops looked like a really good doctrine and would give me the opportunity to model an aircraft for display as well.

    I promise to read the article on doctrins very soon :yes:

    The special weapons were planned to be infiltrated into cover and used to shoot with the two snipers and then the additional lasguns when an enemy came into range and then throw the demo charge at then before being assaulted or making a retreat. Might not have worked :rolleyes: better to know now.

    I had planned to make the Infantry Platoons mobile, although weak CC I know, but if they are going to stand and shoot I might as well spread one of the two anti-tank squads I have attached to the HQ through them for now. I plan to get some Mortars in the future and maybe some autocannons but mortars look cooler. All the heavy weapons I do have are the old metal ones I've salvaged from junk I got in trades :shifty: I'm all about recycling.

    Switching to Power weapons does make sense, the Power fists were only S6 so kinda useless. I just got them because they matched the leader I had, who is getting swapped out too now. Power weapons are cheap :w00t:

    I'm switching up to one Infantry Platoon with a ML+Plasma combo in each squad and putting my third missile in an armoured fist unit instead of having a second Infantry Platoon. The Veterans have to come from somewhere. Also could use some help with the load out of the AF squad. I have a Melta model to use in it already.

    I'm taking out the lascannon Sentinel, to make room for roughriders, and I'm keeping the Hardened Fighters on the flaming Sentiniels as you suggest. I like the look of sentiniels too much I have to keep the three multilaser sentiniels. With Drop trooper they should be a little more disruptive :ninja:
    Rough Riders are looking promising, there is one set of Catachan legs that looks like it will fit great on a load of spare LOTR horses, can they be fielded on round 40mm bases though? I'll be starting with just five for starters but unit composition advise is again appreciated.

    Fixed the oversight on the Basilisk

    I will drop the Storm Bolter on the Leman Russ and add smoke but will leave the HB conversion for the one I'm still building for later. Noted.

    Demolisher is now Smoking!

    Hellhounds have never been a tank I was particularly impressed with, look wise, but I'm considering them now but it will be a while before I get one if I do.

    I appreciate criticism when it is as productive as yours. I hope you give me as much feedback on my revision

    Cheers!
    Last edited by stuckinbermuda; November 10th, 2005 at 03:50.

  6. #5
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    178 (x7)

    Much more effective list.

    Round 2 ........"cracks knuckles"

    HQ: I would upgrade the SO to An HSO with Carapace and a power weapon. I do this mostly for the +1 Leadership, but if he does get into CC, you have a decent model. I would also give him a Bolt Pistol.

    I would also take a Standard with your HQ, failed LD is a real bummer, especially without Iron Discipline. Add a Mortar to the HQ, keep them behind your Lascannons behind cover, and they can lead and although generally uselless, Mortars are something.

    You might take some heat from other IG players on the Triple Lascannons, but I like them. They are nicely focused. Just keep them back in as good cover as you can find, and have other troops in front, not because they can screen from shooting, but from CC.

    You can keep the Drop trooper on the Special Weapons Squads, but you may just want to place them instead. The game mission and opponent may dictate that.

    Veterans is my second favorite Doctorine (after Grenadiers:tongue: ) and there are two ways of using these. HW ( Lascannon ), with up to 3 Plasma Guns. Infiltrate into cover and you have as close to Cheese as IG get, nothing like a 3+ to hit Lascannon. The other way Vets are good is to DS them with 3 Meltas or 3 Plasmas. They are generally going to be suicide squads, so you don't need more than 5 troops per squad.

    Armored Fist squad is just another squad to me. I start them in cover somewhere, and just use the Chimera for fire-support. Your Chimera kit is good, the only thing I would change is have a Heavy Stubber instead of Storm Bolter. 3 guns with 36" range putting out 9 shots is nothing to sneaze at.

    Your Infantry Platoon is now good. I really would change anything, but again with the command squad, you may not want to DS it. If you are going to DS, then making it a suicide squad could be usefull with 3* Plasma or Meltas.

    Sentinals: Good

    Rough Riders: I would give the Vet Sgt Honorifica Imp and Power weapon, and then every one else Lances. Very effective Squad

    Heavy Support: Ya Baby Ya!

    Hope this helps!
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  7. #6
    Junior Member stuckinbermuda's Avatar
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    Well to make my latest list work I'll need to dish out another $70 but it will be a very nice list.
    On top of the stuff I need to order I've got two nice little projects to get on with:

    I'm wondering if I can get away with using a SW Scout with a weapon swap to a Power Weapon to make the Heroic Senior Officer? The standard bearer should be a nice easy conversion.

    For the Rough Riders I'm using Catachans on LOTR horses. Just need to be sure about using round 40mm or the old rectangular bases... round looks so much better but with the rules about fielding units on the bases they come with...meh..advise please
    Last edited by stuckinbermuda; November 10th, 2005 at 16:16.

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