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  1. #1
    Senior Member Nemy's Avatar
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    future IG army - for fun factor

    In the future (after I paint my Death Guard) I planaln to make an Urban theme Cadian Imperial Guard army that is sort of based of the US Marine Corps. Where in the whole army, soldiers are going through more advance training so they can do missions that normal guardsman can do. I plan to model the hellhounds and Sentinels as mech armor suits (I hate what the sentinels look like and I want to to be different with the Hellhound). Also, the elite storm troopers in my army are to represent a Special Force unit where they are 6 to 7 man strong (usually want a real life size Special Force sqaud is)

    Anyways here is the list. Comments/questions/critiques are welcome ^_^

    Doctrines
    Storm Troopers
    Heavy Weapon platoons
    Grenadiers
    Cameleoline (I assure you I will use this, it is msotly for a bigger point army)
    Carapace Armor (same reason as the cameleoline)

    1st Dvision, 23rd Battalion "Shadow Hawks"---lead by Heroic Senior Officer, Colonel Marshal (he is used in 2000pts or more since of his rank)


    HQ
    Command Squad@133pts
    -Senior Officer, Major Jackson : power weapon, bolt pistol, refractor field, frag grenades, carapace armor
    -2 veterans, 1 is a medic the other has the master-vox; both have lasguns
    -missile launcher

    ---Heavy Bolter Support Squad@140pts
    ---Sentinel Support squad@135pts
    -2 heavy flamers, 1 lascannon

    Elite
    NightHunter Special Forces@97pts
    -5 hellguns, 1 flamer, 1 meltagun and meltabomb, serg has a hellpistol and CCW
    ---all have infiltrate
    DarkRaiders Special Forces@99pts
    -5 hellguns, 1 gernade launcher, 1 plasmagun and meltabomb, serg has hellpistol and CCW
    ---all have infiltrate

    Troops
    Storm Trooper squad #1@201pts
    -8 hellguns, 1 meltagun, serg has hellpistol and CCW
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, track guards, smoke launchers
    Storm Trooper squad #1@197pts
    -8 hellguns, 1 flamer, serg has hellpistol and CCW
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, track guards, smoke launchers, searchlight
    Storm Trooper squad #1@197pts
    -8 hellguns, 1 flamer, serg has hellpistol and CCW
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, track guards, smoke launchers

    Fast Attack
    Hellhound@115pts
    Sentinel upport squad@135pts
    -2 heavy flamers, 1 lascannon
    Sentinel Sniper (not really sniper, but when I model him he is going to look like one)@50pts
    -autocannon

    62 models
    1500pts total

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  3. #2
    Shrug, k... Certs's Avatar
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    so a us marine-themed army, eh? what can i say, i don't blame you. we are cool.

    command squad, do you plan on assaulting with it or fire support? if assaulting, then the medic and master-vox

    for the storm troopers, i find that if infiltrating, grenade launchers work well or plasma guns if dealing with MEQs with units of 8-10. ideal for taking/holding objectives. if deep striking, small units of 5 with 2 melta-guns; ideal for tank-popping. that said, don't suggest the flamer too much or the meltabombs for that matter

    for the grenadiers, i'd make use of their ability to have two special weapons. for these guys, i'd say either plasma guns or grenade launchers. i wouldn't worry too much about track gaurds, if immobilized, you're chimera just becomes a stationary weapons platform that blocks line of sight and can be used for cover. smoke launchers are fine, but at the most, i'd go with extra armor, to help keep them moving until you get them into position.

    lastly, your sentinels; separate your lascannons from your heavy flamers; while your heavy flamer sentinels are advancing, your lascannon sentinels should be skirting the board taking pot-shots at vehicles and other vehicles while trying to stay out of range of many of their weapons.
    Last edited by Certs; November 11th, 2005 at 07:43.

    ...A blog that's mostly about Infinity, but sometimes other stuff too.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Nemy's Avatar
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    hehehe...though the USA Special Forces are awesome, in my view, but what I meant by the cool thing is that the whole army I plan to have, like I said above, mech armor units, alot of heavy conversion work, etc. So if I ever went to a Grand tournament the army really will be something that will catch everyone's eyes since I plan to give alot of character and movement to my stuff.
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  5. #4
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    O.K, I know this is for fun, but I would still change a couple of things to make it more effective.

    First is I would drop Carapace. You usually can find enough cover to put all your HW and non-Stormy troop squads in. It will save you a lot of points for something that Cameoleline is better for anyway.

    I would make Major Johnson - I like your fluff - an HSO instead of SO for the leadership and wounds, and I would give him Carapace. I would give the squad a Mortar instead of a ML, to keep out of LOS.

    You Sentinal Support squad is out of whack. You have Lascannons mixed in with Heavy Flamers. Both have a purpose, but not together. Put all of one kind together.

    Same problem with you Stormy Squads. One Flamer, one Melta. I would just give them two Meltas for a Suicide drop troops. Infiltrating is no good for that. I always give my Stormies either two Plasmas or two Meltas, nothing else. You probably bought the box set of Kaskrins like I did that have the Grenade Launcher and Flamer, but don't use em. Two Plasmas are way more effective.

    In your Grenadier Squads, always give two special weapons, that is what make Grenadiers great. In these squads, I actually like to give one or two a Vet Sgt and a Power Weapon because these lads usually end up in CC.

    Your Chimeras are good, I just would drop the Track Guards, not worth it IMO.

    Same issue as above with the Sentinals being different types, especially Heavy Flamer and Lascannons.

    Add Smoke to the Hellhound.

    Overall, I would like to see some more long range firepower, perhaps a HW team with three Lascannons, but you a have list to build on.

    Cheers, DH!
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  6. #5
    Senior Member Nemy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
    O.K, I know this is for fun, but I would still change a couple of things to make it more effective.

    First is I would drop Carapace. You usually can find enough cover to put all your HW and non-Stormy troop squads in. It will save you a lot of points for something that Cameoleline is better for anyway.

    I would make Major Johnson - I like your fluff - an HSO instead of SO for the leadership and wounds, and I would give him Carapace. I would give the squad a Mortar instead of a ML, to keep out of LOS.

    You Sentinal Support squad is out of whack. You have Lascannons mixed in with Heavy Flamers. Both have a purpose, but not together. Put all of one kind together.

    Same problem with you Stormy Squads. One Flamer, one Melta. I would just give them two Meltas for a Suicide drop troops. Infiltrating is no good for that. I always give my Stormies either two Plasmas or two Meltas, nothing else. You probably bought the box set of Kaskrins like I did that have the Grenade Launcher and Flamer, but don't use em. Two Plasmas are way more effective.

    In your Grenadier Squads, always give two special weapons, that is what make Grenadiers great. In these squads, I actually like to give one or two a Vet Sgt and a Power Weapon because these lads usually end up in CC.

    Your Chimeras are good, I just would drop the Track Guards, not worth it IMO.

    Same issue as above with the Sentinals being different types, especially Heavy Flamer and Lascannons.

    Add Smoke to the Hellhound.

    Overall, I would like to see some more long range firepower, perhaps a HW team with three Lascannons, but you a have list to build on.

    Cheers, DH!
    Thanks for the suggestions. The reason why Jackson is not HSO, is because of the whoel rank issue in the army. He is really not suppose to be a high level rank officer, hence why he is Major . The reason I don't have alot of plasma is because I sometimes find it a bit unfun since it can kill alot of stuff so easily.

    The reason why I gave my Special Force teams the inflitrate is to follow exactly what an Army Special Force does. They inflitrate a certain place to do whatever mission that needs to be doen than they are out of there in a flash.

    Hellhound...forgot about the smoke launchers >_>


    for the Sentinels, you are right, but I am going to keep my Sniper >=(

    The reason I used the Carapace doctrine is so essentially I can just field all storm trooper models (or like 90%) since all teh soldiers went through more intense training and so got better armor, etc.
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  7. #6
    Shrug, k... Certs's Avatar
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    your command squad would be the only people that need the carapace armor. you might also want to consider dropping the storm troopers, and switching them with hardened veterans, 3 special weapons and a heavy weapon, and they come with infiltrate. just throw in carapace armor and you're set (i have two of these squads in my current army, as well as carapace armor on my command to keep with the armor saves)
    if interested, check the 1500 sentinel/grenadier/xeno rider army in the army list topic.

    ...A blog that's mostly about Infinity, but sometimes other stuff too.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Nemy's Avatar
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    Did a few touch ups of the list. Also, I am thinking of dropping carapace doctrine and using Harden Veterans.

    Doctrines
    Storm Troopers
    Heavy Weapon platoons
    Grenadiers
    Cameleoline (I assure you I will use this, it is msotly for a bigger point army)
    Carapace Armor (same reason as the cameleoline)

    1st Dvision, 23rd Battalion "Shadow Hawks"---lead by Heroic Senior Officer, Colonel Marshal (he is used in 2000pts or more since of his rank)


    HQ
    Command Squad@118pts
    -Senior Officer, Major Jackson : power weapon, bolt pistol, refractor field, frag grenades, carapace armor
    -2 veterans, 1 is a medic the other has the master-vox; both have lasguns

    ---2 Heavy Bolter Support Squad@140pts
    ---Sentinel Support squad@80pts
    -2 heavy flamers
    ---2 Rocket Team@110pts

    Elite
    NightHunter Special Forces@102pts
    -5 hellguns, 1 grenade launcher, 1 plasmagun and meltabomb, serg has a hellpistol and power weapon
    ---all have infiltrate
    BlackRaven Special Forces (harden veterans)@105pts
    -4 lasguns, 2 flamers, 1 meltagun, veteran serg has bolt pistol and CCW
    *have carapace armor and cameloine*

    Troops
    Storm Trooper squad #1@206pts
    -7 hellguns, 2 meltagun, serg has hellpistol and power weapon
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, track guards, smoke launchers
    Storm Trooper squad #1@197pts
    -7 hellguns, 2 flamer, serg has hellpistol and CCW
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, smoke launchers, searchlight

    Command sqaud@41pts
    -junior officer with bolt pistol
    -4 lasguns
    ---Infantry Platoon#1@105pts
    --7 lasguns, cameloine, carapace armor, serg has shotgun, missile launcher


    Fast Attack
    Hellhound with smoke launchers@116pts
    Sentinel squad@115pts
    -2 lascannon
    Sentinel Sniper (not really sniper, but when I model him he is going to look like one)@65pts
    -lascannon (will be represented as a high caliber armor peice sniper rifle), smoke launchers, armor crew compartment

    Heavy Support
    2 Rocket Team@110pts

    76 models
    1500pts total
    Last edited by Nemy; November 11th, 2005 at 22:40.
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  9. #8
    Shrug, k... Certs's Avatar
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    first glance, i noticed your infantry platoon; you have to have at least 2 infantry squads. next look, your heavy weapons platoon must include a command squad for that as well, i'm assuming that's what the rocket teams are, not sure (if they are; you should just tack them into your command platoon) as i'm not sure how you got that point cost.
    for the grenadiers, i'd say drop the flamers and either go with plasma or melta. always plasma or melta, you never want to plan on being any close than that (and usually even being that close means you're going to end up in combat). same with track guards for the chimera.
    for elites (you can tell i'm working list backwards as i scroll back up to look through it), either the plasma gun or the melta bombs have to go, i'm leaning towards melta-bombs. you should go for a clear mission with these guys (making them either assault-range, where you'd put in melta-guns; or battlesight zero-range (it's like 300yds real life) ( where'd you go with plasma guns and shoot as enemy approaches. the reason i advise against melta bombs, is because as one of your only IG units that are going to be trying to assault tanks, it's going to draw a lot of flak (plus the tank could move and avoid you, or be supported by infantry). also, don't mix assault and rapid fire weapons in the same squad.
    i see the rocket squads in the command platoon (disregard my last on moving the heavy support then) i still don't know if rocket team means you're taking 2 anti-tank support squads of all missile launchers or 1 squad 2 missile launchers and a lascannon, that point cost is really confusing me. i see you've geared your officer for combat, that's on you. but if you plan on charging with him (i'd keep it to counter-charging already engaged units), you should go ahead and drop your master-vox anyways (you need to equip your other squads with vox-casters for it to be used anyways, it's a radio-transmitter with no one on the other side) and put the points into equipping your veteran guardsmen for combat as well.
    next thing i've noticed; the cameloline and carapace armor upgrades apply to all guard infantry units, meaning you have to give them to your command squads and heavy weapon support squads as well. and having both of those is a little redundant (your main cover will be in forests most times, unless you play cityfight, in that case rubble); so you're usual cover save will be around 5+ making it 4+ with cameloline while already having a 4+ from carapace.
    cameloline: only good in cover, not good out in the open ('hey, shoot that moving bush in that grassy field'), protects you from all ranged weapons aside from those that ignore cover saves.
    carapace armor: good if you don't plan on always being in cover, will protect from basic weaponry but not most heavy weapons; but then you can still jump into cover for a slightly less but still helpful cover save if needed.
    lastly, in some areas your points don't seem to add up/are accounted for. like your hardened veteran squad. the weapons given seem like an 8-man squad, but with all those upgrades they should be well over 105 points. ditto on the rocket teams (that one really just befuddles me).
    your hellhound is also short 2 points, and i'd suggest (as someone else had suggested to me) if you take lascannons on your sentinels, give them hunter-killer missiles too (if using them to pop tanks, it's better to get off 2 shots in the beginning than just one) keeping in mind that BS3, your lascannons would statistically hit only half the time, not including any rolls to penetrate heavy armor values, so you want all the shots you can get. that's the reason why in some guard armies, you see like 30 heavy weapons, it's all to compensate for the poor accuracy and all the heavy weapon teams that are going to be dying.

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  10. #9
    Treadhead with a Chainaxe Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Did a few touch ups of the list. Also, I am thinking of dropping carapace doctrine and using Harden Veterans.
    Carapace is best left for drop troop armies and rough riders... and in the first case I'd still be sceptical. Never played drop troops myself though so meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Doctrines
    Storm Troopers
    Heavy Weapon platoons
    Grenadiers
    Cameleoline (I assure you I will use this, it is msotly for a bigger point army)
    Carapace Armor (same reason as the cameleoline)
    I would recommend against heavy weapon platoons and try and fit in any support squads into your Command Platoon instead. Saves a slot for another doctrine, and since you said on IRC that you're theming this to be an urban regiment I'd recommend Close Order Drill. Cameleoline is great depending on how much terrain your play with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    1st Dvision, 23rd Battalion "Shadow Hawks"---lead by Heroic Senior Officer, Colonel Marshal (he is used in 2000pts or more since of his rank)
    I always bring a HSO or a Junior Officer with a Honorifica Imperialis with me in games of 1000p or more. Leadership :lub:


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    HQ
    Command Squad@118pts
    -Senior Officer, Major Jackson : power weapon, bolt pistol, refractor field, frag grenades, carapace armor
    -2 veterans, 1 is a medic the other has the master-vox; both have lasguns
    I never give my officers any wargear. Tends to be quite a waste in IG armies.

    A senior officer doesn't have more leadership than the rest of your army, making his 12" leadership aura completely useless. Moreover, he seems tooled up for assault purposes, something I really don't think IG officers should be doing, especially not your command platoon one.
    IMO, there is only one way to use IG officers, and that is to have them hide in the back and provide leadership to the rest of the army - well out of harms way. This can be done in many ways, in drop troop armies or armies such as this one a system of Vox Casters would do quite well. I'd really recommend promoting this officer to a heroic senior officer or downgrade him to a Junior Officer but give him the Honorifica Imperialis medal, that will make him a HSO, but five points cheaper than a real one. These five points can be used to give him the Iron Discipline doctrine, the best points spent in the entire IG codex if you ask me.
    Now, with an officer doing what he should be doing, hiding in the back and providing leadership he doesn't really need all those fancy toys so I'd drop the powerweapon, the bolt pistol, the refractor field, the frag grenades and the carapace armour. You're spending an awfull alot of points in order to keep a guardsman alive, points that probably won't save him anyways, because when he's in combat you might aswell consider him gone.
    If you've deployed him right this squad should never take any casulties so the medic is quite a waste to. As for the master vox, he can't be promoted to a veteran... not that I could see why you'd want to do that, since there is no difference between him and a normal guardsman.
    Also, Cameleoline armour and carapace armour are special equipment doctrines, which means that they have to be applied to all guard infantry and cavalry units OR all Guard Infantry Units OR all guard cavalry units. (Another reason why the carapace armour doctrine is crap.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    ---2 Heavy Bolter Support Squad@140pts
    ---Sentinel Support squad@80pts
    -2 heavy flamers
    ---2 Rocket Team@110pts
    Lets see here, 2 fire support squads of heavy bolters, one sentinel support squadron and two anti-tank support squads of missile launchers. You've filled out all the support squads available. Makes for a quite low number guard army. :p

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Elite
    NightHunter Special Forces@102pts
    -5 hellguns, 1 grenade launcher, 1 plasmagun and meltabomb, serg has a hellpistol and power weapon
    ---all have infiltrate
    I don't like mixing special weapon in stormtrooper squads. These guys should specialise in one type of target and their weapons accordingly. I'd go with 2 plasma, 2 melta or 2 grenade launchers.
    Also, you need to promote your sergeant to a veteran sergeant before you can give him a powerweapon and a meltabomb. Both which I consider a waste. IG armies are far more effective with more numbers than with wargear.
    If you did as I suggested and upgraded your officer to a ld9 one you should add a vox caster to this squad. Then they'd be ld9 once per turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    BlackRaven Special Forces (harden veterans)@105pts
    -4 lasguns, 2 flamers, 1 meltagun, veteran serg has bolt pistol and CCW
    *have carapace armor and cameloine*
    Again, I don't like mixing special weapons. You should add a vox caster if you plan on infiltrating these guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Troops
    Storm Trooper squad #1@206pts
    -7 hellguns, 2 meltagun, serg has hellpistol and power weapon
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, track guards, smoke launchers
    I'd drop the veteran sergeant and the powerweapon. Those points are better spent elsewhere.
    As for the chimera, you're only giving it a heavy bolter turret? I'd recommend a multi-laser turret instead with a hull heavy bolter. Drop the track guards, even if they do prevent immobilization you're still shaken meaning you can't move which still leaves you out in the open to recive more fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Storm Trooper squad #1@197pts
    -7 hellguns, 2 flamer, serg has hellpistol and CCW
    ---Chimera - heavy bolter, smoke launchers, searchlight
    I think flamers are a waste of BS4. Silly things to give to stormtroopers really.
    Swap the heavy bolter for a multi-laser and add a hull heavy bolter instead. The Chimera is the best APC in the game, not because of it's transport capabilities but because of it's weapon options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Command sqaud@41pts
    -junior officer with bolt pistol
    -4 lasguns
    I'd give these guys a heavy bolter. Iron Discipline for the officer is another good thing to have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    ---Infantry Platoon#1@105pts
    --7 lasguns, cameloine, carapace armor, serg has shotgun, missile launcher
    My personal guideline is never to make my guardsquads more than 90p. 85p when I'm not using a vox caster system.

    Where is the second infantry squad? An infantry platoon is one command squad and 2-5 infantry squads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Fast Attack
    Hellhound with smoke launchers@116pts
    It's 118p.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Sentinel squad@115pts
    -2 lascannon
    These are 110p.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Sentinel Sniper (not really sniper, but when I model him he is going to look like one)@65pts
    -lascannon (will be represented as a high caliber armor peice sniper rifle), smoke launchers, armor crew compartment
    I thought snipers where supposed to keep far away from harm and not be needing stuff like the armoured crew compartement. :p

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy
    Heavy Support
    2 Rocket Team@110pts
    Heavy Weapon platoons require a command squad of an junior officer and a retinue of four guardsmen. Since you've got 2 special equipment doctrines this command squad will cost a minimum of 70p. I'd recommend dropping the entire platoon to strenghten your infantry platoon instead.

    Sorry to be a bit blunt, kinda rushed it at the end, but Civilisation 4 is calling to me again. :>
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  11. #10
    Shrug, k... Certs's Avatar
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    pretty much what i said, but with the quotes to show you whats what, i can't be bothered with doing that extra work

    there's a civ4 now? :o being deployed overseas makes me miss out on all the cool stuff.

    ...A blog that's mostly about Infinity, but sometimes other stuff too.

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