Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Well, the title pretty much says it all Some friends got me interested in WH40K and I jumped in with both feet. I've been scrounging around eBay for the past few months picking up guard units cheaply, and now that I finally have all the models I need I figured I'd ask around online to make sure I've correctly understood the rules for building this army and get some tips on running it. So... here it is:
84th Detachment - Departmento Munitorum
Search and Recovery Division
HQ: Junior Officer w/ missile launcher
1501x Anti-tank Squad w/ missile launchersElites:
2572x squads of 5x hardened veterans with 3x plasma guns, sergeants have surveyors9x Ratling SnipersTroops: 2x Infantry Platoons
968Command Squad is Junior officer w/ missile launcher3x Infantry Squads per platoon, outfitted with autocannons and grenade launchers3x Grenadier Storm Trooper squads w/2 plasma gunsHeavy: 1x Basilisk w/ indirect fire
Restricted Troops: Ratling Squads
Restricted Troops: Heavy Weapons Platoon
I just read the FAQ on GW's site, found out I don't need to take both RS: storm troopers and grenadiers, and you guys've pretty much talked me out of fielding lifght infantry and sentinels at all, so here's the revised list. Better?
...do hereby authorize the eighty-fourth detachment of the Departmento Munitorum and the officers and soldiers thereof to subdue, seize, and take any armed or unarmed Xenos asset which shall be found within the limits of the Imperium, and such captured asset, with its apparel, guns, and appertenances, and the goods or effects which shall be found on with the same, together with all the persons and others who shall be found acting on board, to bring within some loyal locale of the Imperium; and also to retake any vessel, goods, and effects of the people of the Imperium, which may have been captured by any Xenos...
The theme of the army is that they have the Imperial equivelant of a letter of marque, and their job is to reclaim anything that the imperium may have lost over the course of millennia- technological artifacts, religous relics, planets, etc...
I gather that most guard armies run a lot of tanks, but I liked the idea of a special forces oriented unit... think it has a chance? Any comments are appreciated!
Last edited by loimprevisto; November 27th, 2005 at 21:05.
well let's go to town...
first, working from up to down, no hard feelings if i do manage that
the sentinels, as you had suggested, should be fielded separately as fast attack (although you can keep one in the command platoon) so they don't get taken all out in a salvo from a heavy weapons squad, having to each now be separately targetted. some people don't like hk missiles or heavy flamers on sentinels, or sentinels althogether (mainly due to the expensive monetary value for each model), but whatever you find works, as i assume you will be trying to deep strike these. for other tips on deep striking visit this thread (Drop Troop Specialized Units)
mortars, aside from putting these in your command squads (which should be out of sight anyways), i'd advise against taking these, as would the testament of many others. the scatter and low strength/ap don't make up their pointsworth, better off with a heavy bolter squad. also, if you still set on taking these, light infantry is wasted on them, as they should be firing every turn and not moving, should be in the back and not infiltrating, and can't get the sniper rifle.
the hardened fighters, i'd say either drop to a 5-man deep striking team with just the 3 melta-guns and hunt tanks, or go with a full squad, 3 plasma guns, a heavy weapon of your choice, and switch that bolter to a bolt pistol or plain laspistol for the +1a in cc, the meltabombs aren't needed in either instance.
the snipers are good, some people say they are very underestimated. just remember to pick your targets wisely, want to take out creatures with high toughness so you're not wasting the few heavy weapons in each squad on them if you don't have to (ie wraithlords must die)
as for the infantry squads, that's a lot of squads, but that's the strong side of the guard, that and tank support, although you're playing an almost exclusive infantry list so that's fine. you don't need the sniper rifles here too much as you already have a squad of snipers, i'd make good use of those heavy weapon slots as you'll need something to take out tanks and other heavy armor units. and you should have enough lasguns to take out their light infantry and inflict hits on MEQs, i'd switch out the grenade launchers for plasma guns (plasma is always good).
i'd suggest maybe adding in another elite choice, either veterans or snipers, your choice, in place of an infantry squad or two.
i'd say put in tanks to, but i somewhat catching on to the theme. hellhounds are always good, and a leman russ and basilisk are staples in normal guard armies just about, although some people like more basilisks. i kind of like the idea of a leman russ and demolisher or two leman russes instead. giving the hellhound a heavy stubber, and the leman russ/demolisher the 3 heavy bolter defensive weapons.
if you're goingfor special forces, grenadiers would be more suited to that theme, highly-trained, outfitted, and assault weapon oriented. 3 squads of those, sentinels, hardened veterans and armored xeno riders (love that 3+ save) were what i went with when i was going for that theme awhile ago, although i had some tanks too (hellhound, leman russ, and demolisher for the theme)
I liked the idea of Mortars, combined with being able to inifiltrate everything, and was originally going to include quite a few more but ran out of points. I think I'll keep 'em in the command squads and hope for the occasional pin, but I'm changing the Mortar squad to a fire support squad with autocannons.Originally Posted by CertemplarThat was a typo on my part, I meant to write bolt pistol on the vet sergeant. I threw a melta bomb and the bolt pistol on him because I had 6 points left over after totaling up my army list, and thought it could come in handy if someone tried to tank-shock the unit of if they ended up in close combat with something armored- can you think of a better use for the left-over points? Would a 5 man team be survivable enough? I planned it at 10 because I expected they'd draw a lot of attention and wanted them to be able to get to their target, but I could definately find a good use for the points elsewhere.the hardened fighters, i'd say either drop to a 5-man deep striking team with just the 3 melta-guns and hunt tanks, or go with a full squad, 3 plasma guns, a heavy weapon of your choice, and switch that bolter to a bolt pistol or plain laspistol for the +1a in cc, the meltabombs aren't needed in either instance.MEQs? Plasma is fun, but it doesn't quite fit the fluff for these guys- sanctioned raiders out for themselves, trying to get rich off the spoils of the empire's enemies... don't think they'd be that motivated to use a weapon that will kill 'em one time in six. I might give 'em to one platoon and say that those guys get a bigger share of the loot for taking more risksas for the infantry squads, that's a lot of squads, but that's the strong side of the guard, that and tank support, although you're playing an almost exclusive infantry list so that's fine. you don't need the sniper rifles here too much as you already have a squad of snipers, i'd make good use of those heavy weapon slots as you'll need something to take out tanks and other heavy armor units. and you should have enough lasguns to take out their light infantry and inflict hits on MEQs, i'd switch out the grenade launchers for plasma guns (plasma is always good).
I went with sniper rifles for the heavy slot because I wanted the army to be very mobile, and I don't like the idea of moving up to an objective every turn and not being able to do anything with two of my troops... this way the sniper rifles are just an added bonus in case I don't happen to move in a turn (and at +5pts they're pretty cheap too). Also, I figure 10 seperate additional sniper shots a turn has at least a moderate chance of pinning...
Has anyone tried running troops like this and been specifically disappointed with the results, or is that 'conventional wisdom'?The only codexes I have are Imperial Guard and Witch Hunters- as far as I know I can only have one squad of ratling snipers... is there a way to add more? I'm interested in running some storm troopers (would it be worth shifting the doctrines around to take another veteran squad?) And I have plenty of room in my troops slots to field them. I'll probably end up giving them light infantry instead of paying for their infiltrate at the same price... only problem is the only storm trooper models I have on hand are 11 troops, with one flamer, melta and grenade launcher. Worth fielding?i'd suggest maybe adding in another elite choice, either veterans or snipers, your choice, in place of an infantry squad or two.If I was running more points, I'd have fielded a basilisk and a lot more mortars, but I just don't think there's room for it with 1500... cutting enough points to field it would take away from other parts of the army that I consider pretty essential. I like the idea of being able to infiltrate everything in the army, and being able to start with my entire army on the board in missions that use reserves.i'd say put in tanks to, but i somewhat catching on to the theme. hellhounds are always good, and a leman russ and basilisk are staples in normal guard armies just about, although some people like more basilisks. i kind of like the idea of a leman russ and demolisher or two leman russes instead. giving the hellhound a heavy stubber, and the leman russ/demolisher the 3 heavy bolter defensive weapons.I don't know what Xeno riders are- what book are they listed in? I took the grenadiers doctrine, but don't have the models for 'em yet, and they'd probably only show up in 2k point games anyway.if you're goingfor special forces, grenadiers would be more suited to that theme, highly-trained, outfitted, and assault weapon oriented. 3 squads of those, sentinels, hardened veterans and armored xeno riders (love that 3+ save) were what i went with when i was going for that theme awhile ago, although i had some tanks too (hellhound, leman russ, and demolisher for the theme)
So, I'll edit my post to reflect the changes so far- removing light infantry from the command squads and switching the mortar squad to autocannons and removing light infantry. That leaves me with 15 points spare...
sorry, my bad on the snipers part, you're right it's 0-1, i never thought about fielding more than one in any of my armies so i never caught onto that in the codex.
as for xeno riders, check out the chapter approved section in the GW website, they have a few other useful things like giant reptiles and hunting beasts too.
I might suggest adding some more anti-tank and anti-MEQ wweapons, becuase currently your only forms of anti ank are in a fragile-ass hell sentinal squadren and a squad of veterans that will get slaughtered the second they go after a tank.
I suggest giving half of your platoon squads lascannons/plasma guns to deal with MEQ and Vehicles.
I don't like the sentinels. They are only AV 10, if they miss when you drop them they are going to wind up as a lot of wasted points, ony opponent wil smoke them with their guns. ALso Hunter killer missiles are a really really crap upgrade. The points you spend on one of them could buy you a gun in a normal infantry squad that can shoot every turn as opposed to just once. Also if you are dropping them the camoflage netting is wasted, anyway it will probably be quite rare that you play a game where you actually use hidden setup rules. I would ditch both the camo and missile upgrades and change the flamer to a multilaser, preferably I would upgrade it to lascannons if possible. Actually I would ditch the sentinels full stop but I get the feeling you wont want to.Originally Posted by loimprevisto
Austocannon support squad. I don't like these either. If you are a trying to use this as an anti horde unit, change them for heavy bolters, if you are trying to use it as a light anti tank unit, I would change it for Rocket Launchers. I find that autocannons try to hard be to versatile, they don't specialise enougth either way to be useful and shoot themself in the foot so to speak.Ok, meltagun veterens. Take a good look at these and ask yourself "what are the chances that these guys will be able to get within range to fire their meltaguns and not have every boltgun available wipe the floor with them?" The answer is very close to zero. For no points change, why not switch to plasma guns? They have a better range, are still mobile and can still knock a terminator off his feet. Of course you lose the anti tank capabilities but stil, they can infiltrate where they can safely fire at their targets because of their extended range as opposed to the short ranged meltaguns.Elites:
23810x hardened veterans with 3x meltaguns, Sergeant has power weapon + bolt pistol + melta bomb + Surveyor10x Ratling SnipersSingular sniper rifles are pretty lame. The problem is, sniper rifles aren't very powerful against many enemies. For example a rocket launcher is a better sniper rifle against MEQs. Sure you need 4+ to hit, but then again the rifle needs 4+ to wound whereas the Rocket needs only 2+, added the rocket also negates the save whereas the sniper rifle is likely to bounce right off. If you really want to keep the light infantry upgrades. I would ditch the sniper rifle in each squad and upgrade the grenade launcher to a plasma gun which will serve you far better I believe. Then with the 15 points saved from each platoon, I would upgrade their command squad's heavy bolter to a lascannon, boosting your dangerously low anti tank capabilities.Troops: 2x Infantry Platoons (Light Infantry except for command squad)
934Command Squad is Junior officer w/ mortar crew, Surveyor5x Infantry Squads per platoon, outfitted with sniper rifles and grenade launchers
One probelm is that if you are infiltrating your infantry squads and not your command squads, what are you going to do about their leadership? I suggest juggling a few things to get each squad a veteren sergeant (you need to find 60 points for this, one of your sentinels is 52)
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
I took a lot of your advice, ended up throwing out light infantry and the sentinels altoghether and substituting 4 regular infantry squads for 3 storm trooper squads. The army looks quite different now, think these changes are a step in the right direction? Oh, and like I said, I'm [I]very[I] new to warhammer, what does MEQ stand for?
Basically anything thats Toughness 4 with a 3+ save.
Ok, only one or two things left now.
The two veteren squads you have, although they are dangerous as all hell, with only two "meatshields" (expendable guys in the squad, actually really it's only one meatshield as the sergeant is needed to stop them from fleeing) you will probably find that they get blown apart way too easily. I suggest morphing the two squads into one big 10 man one, and replacing the three extra plasma guns with one lascannon, very nasty.
Also, now you're actually using your command squads for leadship, you need to hide them out of sight. Otherwise if they get killled, your infantry squads will fight like headless stinkworms. So you should switch the rocket launcher for a mortar. Also I would switch your heavy weapons platton doctorine for Iron Discipline, you haven't got any heavy platoons and they're pretty useless anyway, you can just take the units in you command squad.
Of course doing this lowers your anti tank capability, so if you find yourself struggling to take out tanks, switch one or two autocannons to Rocket Launchers.
Other than that, good luck.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..