[1330] Black Templar - New Player. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Junior Member Apone's Avatar
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    [1330] Black Templar - New Player.

    This is my first 40k army, and I am a total newb.

    I'm completely new to 40k, and I'd love to get some feedback from y'all about the Black Templar army that I am building. Any comments, advice, suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you.

    [HQ] [305pts]

    -Command Squad [215]
    1 Initiate [16]
    1 Apothecary (Narthecium) [31]
    1 Standard Bearer (Chapter Banner) [41]
    1 Company Champion (Powersword, Combat Shield) [36]
    1 Sergeant (Powerfist) [31]
    1 Force Commander (Powerfist) [60]

    -Emperor's Champion [90]

    [Elites] [260pts]

    -Sword Brethren Terminator Squad [260]
    1 Assault Cannon [20]
    1 Cyclone Missile Launcher [25]
    3 Chain Fists [15]

    [Troops] [440pts]
    - Crusader Squad mounted in Land Raider Crusader [265]
    10 Initiates [16]
    8 Chain Swords [0]
    8 Bolt Pistols [0]
    1 Meltagun [10]
    1 Heavy Bolter [5]

    [Troops] [192pts]
    - Crusader Squad mounted in Razorback [90]
    6 Initiates [16]
    1 Missile Launcher [10]
    1 Plasmagun [6]

    Fast Attack [126pts]
    - Assault Squad w Jump Packs
    5 Initiates [22]
    Flamer [6]
    PowerAxe [10]

    [edit] added missile launcher to Razorback mounted squad

    Last edited by Apone; December 13th, 2005 at 20:44.
    Look into my eye...


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Bob Dole's Avatar
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    Okay, a few easy things to consider:

    You don't have very many warm bodies to play with. I'd really recommend dropping at least one of the LRC and the Terminators. Use the extra points to buy more marines.

    If you choose to keep the LRC, use the extra transport capacity and toss in 5 neophytes. They're cheap and as long as they're in the minority, they're just as good as an Initiate in close combat. Even if you don't keep the LRC it might not be a terrible idea.

    The command squad needs some serious rethinking. For one I'm not sure where your HQ is for it. Remember, the EC doesn't count towards your limit and it cannot take a command squad. Also, you need to drop the individual point costs on here. In fact, there may even be a post above mine telling you to do just that.

    One good place to insert extra bodies is the Assault Squad. Try to bring it up to at least 8 men. Buy it a second special weapon (two of the same.) Consider upgrading the axe to a power fist. Striking last seems bad, but if you have other marines to take the hits first... it's a good way to make sure you don't get locked into CC against something you can't hurt.

    The squad you have in a Razorback would do well to add a Lascannon to it's members. You really are lacking tank busting power, so the extra Lascannon will help. Remember the capacity of the Razorback is only 6.

    While we're on tank busting, a Venerable Dreadnought with twink-linked Lascannons and a Missile Launcher with the Tank Hunter skill (yes, that's a mouthful) is a good way for us to get anti-tank. Buy extra armor and possibly smoke launchers for it as well.

    Finally, 1330 is a strange point total. I'm sure you can find people willing to work around that problem since you're new. However try to stick to multiples of 500 for general lists as that's what most people seem to do. 750, 1000, 1500, 1850 (Tournament), and 2000 are common totals.

  4. #3
    Junior Member Apone's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for your reply, BobDole.

    You don't have very many warm bodies to play with. I'd really recommend dropping at least one of the LRC and the Terminators. Use the extra points to buy more marines.
    Would you say that there is a point threshold for deploying terminators with your space marine army ? For example... Under 1500 pts, its a waste to deploy Terminators ?

    If you choose to keep the LRC, use the extra transport capacity and toss in 5 neophytes. They're cheap and as long as they're in the minority, they're just as good as an Initiate in close combat. Even if you don't keep the LRC it might not be a terrible idea.
    Yes, I've read that from other posters as well. That its always a good idea with the Black Templars to put the neophytes in the crusader squads. Extra warm bodies as you say I think that I'll be adding some neophytes to my Crusader squads regardless of wether or not I field the LRC. And you are absolutely right - why not use the extra transport capacity ? I'll put some neos in my crusader squad. That beefy-numbers squad will have the LRC for transport, and my other 6-man Crusader squad will have their Razorback for transport. Adding neos would mean they couldn't mount up in the Razorback.

    The command squad needs some serious rethinking. For one I'm not sure where your HQ is for it. Remember, the EC doesn't count towards your limit and it cannot take a command squad. Also, you need to drop the individual point costs on here. In fact, there may even be a post above mine telling you to do just that.
    Yes, I am a little confused by the HQ rules: I attached my Force Commander to my Command Squad. It is my understanding that the Force Commander is a 'space marine hero', that the hero can be attached to the command squad, and that the combination counts as a single HQ choice. I realize that the EC does not count as an HQ choice, but I wasn't sure under which category to list him. I am aware that he cannot be attached to anything, and works solo. He doesn't count as an HQ slot, but you still need to add his 90pt cost to your point total, right ? The point cost of my HQ (command squad + force commander is 215. I added the EC to that total, bringing it to 305, which is wrong I guess. To what unit type do you add the EC's point cost ?

    One good place to insert extra bodies is the Assault Squad. Try to bring it up to at least 8 men. Buy it a second special weapon (two of the same.) Consider upgrading the axe to a power fist. Striking last seems bad, but if you have other marines to take the hits first... it's a good way to make sure you don't get locked into CC against something you can't hurt.
    Hehehe - I thought that 5 assault marines seemed a little light. I'll definitely bring their numbers up. Being a complete newb, I liked the look of the PowerAxe, and that is why I chose it, hehe.

    The squad you have in a Razorback would do well to add a Lascannon to it's members. You really are lacking tank busting power, so the extra Lascannon will help. Remember the capacity of the Razorback is only 6.
    This squad actually has a missile launcher, I forgot to mention. You would recommend the lascannon over this for tank busting ?

    While we're on tank busting, a Venerable Dreadnought with twink-linked Lascannons and a Missile Launcher with the Tank Hunter skill (yes, that's a mouthful) is a good way for us to get anti-tank. Buy extra armor and possibly smoke launchers for it as well.
    Excellent - A dreadnought was the next piece that I wanted to buy.

    Finally, 1330 is a strange point total. I'm sure you can find people willing to work around that problem since you're new. However try to stick to multiples of 500 for general lists as that's what most people seem to do. 750, 1000, 1500, 1850 (Tournament), and 2000 are common totals.
    Yes, I was wondering about this. Do people round off their numbers, or do they actually try to hit those values by playing with their upgrades ? I mean - is 1486 considered a 1500 point army ? Do you list as '1486', or do you mess around with some upgrades to make it an even 1500pts ?

    Thanks very much, again, Bobdole. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out.
    Look into my eye...


  5. #4
    Senior Member Bob Dole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apone
    Thanks very much for your reply, BobDole.

    Yes, I am a little confused by the HQ rules: I attached my Force Commander to my Command Squad. It is my understanding that the Force Commander is a 'space marine hero', that the hero can be attached to the command squad, and that the combination counts as a single HQ choice. I realize that the EC does not count as an HQ choice, but I wasn't sure under which category to list him. I am aware that he cannot be attached to anything, and works solo. He doesn't count as an HQ slot, but you still need to add his 90pt cost to your point total, right ? The point cost of my HQ (command squad + force commander is 215. I added the EC to that total, bringing it to 305, which is wrong I guess. To what unit type do you add the EC's point cost ?
    Okay, the points for the Force Commander look real low. Remember that you need to pay for all of his upgrades, also Black Templar Commanders cost a little bit more than regular Codex ones. Good upgrades are a Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol, along with Terminator Honors. Your Commander will fight as a seperate unit in CC, so you don't want to hurt your initiate. If you read Chaosbrynn's tactica on the hidden powerfist (I hope I didn't make that one up.) you'll probably understand the basic concepts. An Iron Halo for the invulernable save isn't a bad idea, otherwise anything with a power weapon will make short work of your expensive HQ. I'd also recommend going for the more expensive Commander option. We take a lot of morale saves, so that extra point of leadership is worth it.

    Consider a Chaplain as well. Both the Commander and Chaplain (Just one, don't take both in this size of game unless you're doing it for fun.) make good HQ choices for us depending on the situation. I don't claim to have any great wisdom on this, as I'm still trying to figure out which one is better myself. A safe rule is probably if you're running a single large squad, attach a Chaplain. If you're running multiple squads, use a Marshal. If you aren't sure, stick with what you own or like the model for better. If you don't like it, switch.

    The EC really counts as his own choice, so it stays attached to himself. You essentially have 3 HQ slots, however one of them is always taken by the EC who does not count as your compulsory HQ choice. I just was thrown by the points on your Force Commander and made the mistake of being lazy about addressing it. Sorry about that.

    Wheh. Deep breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apone
    This squad actually has a missile launcher, I forgot to mention. You would recommend the lascannon over this for tank busting ?
    General consensus is that for the extra handful of points, getting the extra point of STR and AP is worth it. I'd have to agree. With the Razorback you should be fairly certain of landing at least one Lascannon hit each turn. I won't go into the Rhinos/Razorbacks rule/suck discussion as, really, I don't know enough to be confident on my advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apone
    Yes, I was wondering about this. Do people round off their numbers, or do they actually try to hit those values by playing with their upgrades ? I mean - is 1486 considered a 1500 point army ? Do you list as '1486', or do you mess around with some upgrades to make it an even 1500pts ?
    People normally list what the total point allowance would be. So a 1500 list would be for games where everyone was allowed to go up to and including 1500 points. A 1486 point army would probably be listed as a 1500 point army. (Yes, I'm aware of the logic error in my sentence.)

    I also wanted to comment on the power axe thing. Now, this really depends on your opponent, but if you really like the look of the power axe over the power fist (I know I do.) use the power axe on the model but have it proxy/count as a power fist. As long as you're sticking to friendly games and keep proxies to a reasonable minimum, I don't think you'll have huge problems. If people want to be sticklers for WYSIWYG however, you may be SOL for doing this. You could try and use magnetic mounts to make the two weapons interchangable, however that depends on how comfortable you are with drilling little holes into your miniatures and then not getting the magnets backwards.

    I skipped over a few other things. Frankly, I just don't feel comfortable giving you advice on them. I'm hardly adept at this game myself, and I don't want to give you bad advice. Hopefully people who are more experienced can fill in the holes for you.

  6. #5
    Junior Member Apone's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks again for all your help, BobDole.

    I actually just ran out to GW, and bought myself a scout marines box. Those 5 neophytes will be embedded into my 10 man Crusader squad (and potentially mounted into my LRC).

    I think I have a better handle on the HQ rules now, too, thanks. I'll make sure to properly count my upgrades in my overall point cost for HQ. Chaplain Grimaldus isn't being sold untill Dec. 26th in stores in Montreal. I plan on picking him and Helbrecht up after Christmas. That way, I will have several HQ options available to me.

    General consensus is that for the extra handful of points, getting the extra point of STR and AP is worth it. I'd have to agree.
    This makes alot of sense to me. Unfortunately... I don't have any Lascannon models in any of my sprues (I don't think). Which defaults me to a Missile Launcher, as plan-B, I guess, hehe.

    I also wanted to comment on the power axe thing.
    Yah, what you say makes sense. As a beginner, I think that most of the games I will be playing initially will be friendlies, and people won't be pulling the WYSIWYG card too much. One of the things that I really love about 40k, however, is the fact that your model army is supposed to correlate directly back to the rules in terms of their gear. I can certainly understand why, and even agree with, in tournament or serious play... Your models should definitely be WYSIWYG.

    Thanks again for all your advice, and hopefully some other people might chime in on some of the topics we've raised by not addressed in full.
    Look into my eye...


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